The Hero's Journey With Don't Sweat the Small Stuff's Kristine Carlson SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 277

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What happens when life as you know it suddenly shatters? Kristine Carlson, New York Times bestselling co-author of the "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff" series, found herself facing this question when her husband Dr. Richard Carlson died unexpectedly at just 45 years old.

In this deeply moving conversation, Kristine shares her remarkable journey from devastating grief to renewed purpose. With raw honesty, she reveals how she navigated raising teenage daughters alone while processing her own heartbreak, and the surprising spiritual connections that sustained her through the darkest days. "I had this conversation with myself where I could see myself doing this grief thing two ways," Kristine explains. "I chose to embrace what is, knowing I would have the inner guidance to teach me how to go through each day."

Kristine's story isn't about quick fixes or toxic positivity. She acknowledges the profound pain of loss while illuminating how tragedy can become the doorway to a more authentic life. Most powerfully, she challenges the myth that grief must last forever, offering a liberating perspective on giving ourselves permission to experience joy again after loss. "Missing them and being in grief are two very different things," she shares. "You get used to missing them, but holding yourself to living a life of grief versus choosing light, love and joy - that becomes a choice."

For anyone facing life's inevitable heartbreaks - whether from death, illness, or profound disappointment - Kristine offers practical wisdom on present moment awareness, gratitude practice, and following what she calls "breadcrumbs of joy." Her story demonstrates how we can transform our deepest wounds into our greatest gifts, emerging not diminished but expanded by our pain.

Share this episode with someone navigating their own hero's journey through loss. Rate, review, and subscribe to support these conversations

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Christine Carlson
• 4:30 Richard's Death and Grief Journey
• 16:00 Signs, Miracles, and Divine Connections
• 29:00 Permission to Live With Joy Again
• 43:30 Finding Presence and Gratitude in Hard Times
• 1:08:00 Upcoming Projects and Retreats
• 1:17:30 Episode Closing and Call to Action

Transcript

Sandy Kruse: 0:02

Hi everyone, it's me, Sandy Kruse of Sandy K Nutrition, Health and Lifestyle Queen. For years now, I've been bringing to you conversations about wellness from incredible guests from all over the world. Discover a fresh take on healthy living for midlife and beyond, One that embraces balance and reason, without letting only science dictate every aspect of our wellness. Join me and my guests as we explore ways that we can age gracefully, with in-depth conversations about the thyroid, about hormones and other alternative wellness options for you and your family. True wellness nurtures a healthy body, mind, spirit and soul, and we cover all of these essential aspects to help you live a balanced, joyful life. Be sure to follow my show, rate it, review it and share it. Always remember my friends balanced living works. Remember my friends balanced living works. Hi everyone, Welcome to Sandy K Nutrition, Health and Lifestyle Queen.

Sandy Kruse: 1:32

Today with me, I have a special guest and her name is Kristine Carlson. She is a New York Times bestselling author, best known for her work with her late husband, Dr Richard Carlson, in the Don't Sweat the Small Stuff series, With over 25 million books sold worldwide. She is a renowned speaker, inspiring podcast host, retreat leader and blogger. Her mission is to help women transform from heartbreak and loss, to live their best lives with joy, gratitude, renewed passion and purpose. With her resilient spirit, powerful presence and heart-centered teaching, she guides women through the challenges and transitions of midlife and awakens them to their truth and the expression of their higher selves.

Sandy Kruse: 2:32

Now, today we are talking about, let's just say, trudging through life's purpose, through tragedy, because sometimes the hero's journey is what can push us into a whole other world and a whole other life. And most of you who follow me, you know that I've had my own journey and I've had my own struggles and that's why I do what I do now and I get to talk to amazing people all the time, like Kristine. So with that, welcome Kristine. Thank you so much for coming.

Kristine Carlson: 3:10

Thank you so much, Sandy, for having me. Thank you for that beautiful introduction as well.

Sandy Kruse: 3:15

Now listen, I have I don't know how many of your books here. I mean, I'm a 1970 baby, so I was born in 1970. And I think Don't Sweat the Small Stuff the first one came out would it be like 1990, something like that 1997. 1997. So this was to me the series was like a stepping stone to books to really help with the whole being happy and okay with life's troubles, and you've obviously had your own and I think that's where we need to begin. We need to begin with your story.

Kristine Carlson: 4:03

All right. Well, you've started with a bit of my story. It really started with my meeting and my love story with my late husband, dr Richard Carlson, who wrote the first Don't Sweat the Small Stuff book. We met in college and we met at Pepperdine University and it was really loved at first meeting and we, you know, got married. As soon as I graduated from college we started our journey. Richard was in body work while he got his master's and PhD in psychology and I had a design business and we started our journey. Then we had our two daughters like to say, we co-authored our two daughters during that journey, jazz and Kenna and we just we created this really incredible life together.

Kristine Carlson: 5:01

It wasn't an overnight success story. Richard had written 10 books by the time he wrote don't sweat the small stuff. So he'd been on the author path for a long time. 10 years is a long time to wait for your blockbuster big seller, but but it was a bigger seller than we could have ever anticipated and it went to become a worldwide phenomenon in published in every language imaginable and every country imaginable. So then, at at the 10-year anniversary, um, richard, literally at the 10-year anniversary of Don't Spill the Small Stuff, was writing different books and he was about to get to New York to go on a book tour for the last book that he wrote and on the descent of that flight, richard died very suddenly from a pulmonary embolism. And I was 43, our kids were 14 and 17. And he was 45 years old and it was very, just, really incredibly shocking.

Kristine Carlson: 6:13

Like, just talk about the hero's journey. You know, the hero's journey it really starts with a shattering of life as you knew it and trajectory and puts you on a whole new trajectory of life. And and for many of your listeners, um, today I'm sure that they've had their shattering moments, um, that come where it's completely unannounced, unexpected, um, and it pretty much pulls the rug out from underneath your feet and you know, and yet you start a journey the moment that that happens. You know, for me it was a journey of how can I prepare my kids for grief, from going from having this almost clearly perfect life to having it completely different and the loss of a father that they just dearly, dearly admired and loved, who was very present with them and present in our lives, to living a new life of grief. And you know, I say my kids' childhood ended that day when we got that news. It's not anything that you can prepare for and it's nothing that you. You know, I didn't have any experience really with grief. All four of our parents were alive and of course I'd lost a couple of friends to terrible accidents along the way, and so had Richard, but I just didn't have anything really that prepared me for losing the love of my life and my life partner.

Kristine Carlson: 7:48

But I did have a very deep and rich spiritual background and backbone and it was everything from my Christian upbringing to my walking into the new age world in college. You know it held a very large repertoire of experience. You know we had been on a path together in college that was very unique in the sense that we were on a spiritual trek together where we were evaluating everything possible. I like to say that Richard and I, by the time we were 25, 26 years old, were probably two of the most healed 26-year-olds because we really dove in to every kind of therapy and every kind of imaginable device, whether it be holotropic breath work or it was flotation tanks or this thing that Richard did, his master's thesis on the gram potentializer that would spin you around and activate, you know, all sides of your brain.

Kristine Carlson: 9:00

We did all of that in our younger years, prior to having a family, and then he did get his master's and PhD in psychology, studied a very unique form of psychology called psychology of mind at the time, and we both were able to study that as a philosophy to live by together, which was really powerful. When he introduced me into the Don't Sweat the Small Stuff series, I was able to jump in because we were practicing this way of life that is very prevalent in that series. So that's kind of the beginning of my story, and then the remaking of myself and the reshaping and the revealing of myself through this journey of loss and bringing me into the life that I'm living today, which is, you know, really.

Kristine Carlson: 9:55

I've given myself permission to live a life of joy and to return to joy after a tremendous long passage through grief.

Sandy Kruse: 10:07

Now where to begin on asking you. I guess, because I have so many questions, I do want to touch on the spirituality aspect, because so I have a Catholic upbringing. But then it's interesting the way spirituality can really help you get through hard times. I stepped away, meaning it didn't resonate with me, and this was in my 20s. While you were doing all those spiritual cool things, I was out there partying Like I was just having a good time. I wasn't thinking that way, and I think having a foundation, whatever your belief system is, will at least help you in some way. But I would imagine that it was tough to get through. But I would imagine that it was tough to get through. And where did you even, yeah, like where do you even begin to pick up the pieces after such a great loss and love story?

Kristine Carlson: 11:16

Well, I mean honestly, I was really well supported by a community of healers and people that we had as friends. They were all over the world. They weren't in my location all of them, but I did have a group of friends that were my community and where I live and it was just amazing how that community stepped forward to assist me. I think they knew, I think my friends were terrified that I wasn't going to be able to do this, that I wasn't going to be able to live with, with the kind of relationship that I had lost. But you know, it was interesting because I realized through all of this just truly how resilient and strong my human spirit is and I just immediately stood in it. And I remember having this very pivotal conversation with myself where I, literally, three days after Richard died, I literally had this conversation that went kind of like this I could see myself doing this grief thing two ways and I could literally see it. I could see the choice.

Kristine Carlson: 12:30

The choice was to just go to bed and not get up and, you know, wallow and wallow, wallow, wallow in the misery and the loss and the feeling that my life was now just looming like, like, like I couldn't even imagine a day without Richard in it, and that it just felt like this long and desolate path, or I could, you know, embrace what is, which was terribly difficult, but knowing that I would have the, the guidance, the inner guidance, to teach me you know how to get through each day, how to go through loss, how to go through grief, knowing that I knew their grief would come. And you know my. The only thing I didn't know was how I was ever going to come out of it. That was the. That's the scary part for any of us going through such a huge loss is we don't know and we don't feel, when we're in it, like there's ever going to be a way out. And I started to quickly recognize that when I allowed myself to feel my feelings, when I allowed myself to grieve deeply and really cry deeply and really be in it, that I came out of it. Every cycle of grief, every wave of grief, I came out of it and I would feel these different feelings, and they were feelings of peace, they were feelings of calm and presence and they were feelings that I could never have anticipated in grief.

Kristine Carlson: 14:13

The beauty of life when you're in grief is is astounding. When you open your eyes and you, you suddenly see the sky in a new way, because what you're really looking for in the sky is you're looking for your person that you've lost. You're looking for to find any indication that they still exist. And what was really beautiful for me, sandy, is that I had a conversation with Richard at some point in our marriage. I remember I was sitting next to the bathtub when he was in the bath and I had my, you know, my head kind of rested on my in my hands, and I was asking him you know, do you think if anything ever happens to one of us, we'll be able to find our way to each other? Do you think that we'll be able to communicate and give each other signs and and know that we're still connected? And he just looked at me with the most clear expression. He said there is no doubt in my mind that you and I will find each other in any situation, whether it be in life or out of this body. He said there's no doubt in my mind, and I had so many amazing experiences very early on where Richard was so present with me and I could feel him and I could almost even see where he was, and that was both my ability to open and to be present with him in his new spirit place and also the strength of his spirit desiring this to know that I was going to be okay. So I had this just incredible like connection with him for the first two years where I could just really access him and feel him and feel one with him, and then, after a couple of years, I noticed that there was this natural evolution where he had to be on his journey and I had to be on mine and I had gotten to a point where, um, I started to realize that it was. It was time for that, and I have this really incredible experience. I'd love to share this story with you.

Kristine Carlson: 16:33

That happened just two years after he died. It was right at the time when I found out, my daughter, jazz, was pregnant with her first baby and we were coming home from Eugene, oregon, where my parents had had their 50th wedding anniversary, and we were flying in a small commuter plane home. It was just a really quick flight to San Francisco, like an hour flight, so it was a very small commuter plane and we went up to the ticket agent and it was around Christmas time and he was this really lovely Polynesian man and he said you know, you're not seated together on this flight. Would you like to be seated together? And I remember looking at the girls and I just said no, it's okay, we're fine. You know, we're fine, it's a short flight, we're fine, it's a short flight. And then he said well, I'd like to put you guys on a.

Kristine Carlson: 17:30

I'd like to rearrange your seats because, I want you to sit together on the flight because it's the holidays. So I was like, oh, okay, whatever. So he did that, he rearranged our seats on this flight and that's kind of a really important piece, and you'll understand in a moment that when I sat down in my seat, the window seat was open and the girls sat across the aisle together in the seats next to me, and the man who walked up to sit next to me, he stood in front of me and for a moment I had this weird feeling, like these chills that ran over me. And then my girls who are, you know, they were, they were like 16 and 19 years old, they were, they giggled, which was so weird, you know, like with the whole thing, which is so weird, they giggled when he stood in front of me and and so I let him in, and then I proceeded to have this very strong feeling like I'm supposed to talk to this man, like I have to have a conversation with this man. Well, he pulls his laptop out and he's clearly busy. So I, you know, I'm in my mind, I'm like, oh God, I really have to talk to him. I can't bug him, I can't be that person.

Kristine Carlson: 18:32

So I didn't bother him and then on the descent of the flight he put his laptop away and I asked him I just opened a conversation. I said is this a work day for you? And he said oh, yeah, you know, I'm so sorry. I had a. I have a meeting this afternoon. I was preparing for what about you? I noticed you have your computer with you and I'm like no, it's not really a work day, but I'm a writer so I always have my computer with me in case you know, I've got something that you know I feel like I need to jot down.

Kristine Carlson: 19:01

And he's like oh, have you been published? And I said well, I have. But you might be more familiar with my late husband's work, dr Richard Cross, and he wrote Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. And the guy just like I mean he literally just like got really uneasy looking and I said what I go? Did you know him? And he goes no, I didn't know him. And I'm like what he said? Well, did he die on a flight to JFK a little over two years ago? And I at around this time and I said yeah, how did you know? How'd you know it was JFK? He said he just was shaking his head. He said I was seated directly behind him on that flight, oh my.

Kristine Carlson: 19:45

God, I was the first to assist in lifting his body. I helped the crew lift his body out of his seat and he goes. I just burst into tears and I said, oh my God, what are the chances of this happening, that we're having this conversation? He looked at me and he said there's no chances that we would ever have this conversation and I said no, I, and he said I always wanted to tell you.

Kristine Carlson: 20:15

You know, once I looked you up and I, you know, because I wanted to tell your husband, I, very peacefully, he looked very at peace, and I, he had no idea of knowing that I had never talked to anyone at that point who was on that flight. And it was my deepest desire, because I couldn't be with him, to know that he was held on some level, that he was honored in that capacity of you know of, of dying on that plane. And so it just made me feel so, um, in grace, you know. I just I knew that was Richard, I knew that was divine, I knew that was grace that had delivered this conversation to me. And, um, and it was that beautiful Polynesian man who rearranged our seats. He was in grace, he was the reason it happened. You know that we were able to have that conversation and it helped heal me so much. It really helped me to know that all was well, even though I had that sense I did a. Really that really helped me.

Sandy Kruse: 21:25

Wow, that just like I got chills as you were telling that story. Did you feel like that kind of helped you? When did you start writing Like in terms of because I don't know how many books Richard had published before you because you, you were writing with him even while he was still alive, right.

Kristine Carlson: 21:56

Yeah, I wrote Don't Sweep the Small Stuff in Love with him. And then I wrote my first solo book when he was alive.

Sandy Kruse: 21:57

Don't Sweep the Small Stuff in.

Kristine Carlson: 21:57

Love. I have it I have that one I have that one too.

Kristine Carlson: 22:03

I love that alive too. But I hadn't really owned my career as a writer. You know, I was more or less like, okay, I did that, you know it was a New York Times bestseller or whatever. I'm off. I went back to my life of being a mom and being the crystal in his clock so that he could continue to do his work and his writing.

Kristine Carlson: 22:29

And and then after he died, you know, I I immediately had to fill my early morning hours that he and I would have coffee with something, because it was just so painful, it was just so incredibly painful. And then I started to journal about what I was going through and my feelings about what I was going through. And then it was just so odd because then I felt Richard coming through my fingers on the keyboard and I could type faster than I'd ever typed and I was just like, oh, this is so wow, like, like, and I had this just communication that was just always happening with him and it was telepathic, but I had this communication that was happening. So it really drove me to really document that first year of passage, which became Heartbroken, open a memoir through loss, memoir through profound loss, to choosing a life of joy and or whatever I'm not sure what the subtitle is actually changed it the second round of printing, but it's a memoir through profound loss and that book became a lifetime movie two years ago. So you know it was.

Kristine Carlson: 23:46

It's just been a really incredible part of my journey and of course, I really I started to really own my life as a writer at that point and really began to publish more and write more books and have now written seven books. I have an eighth book coming out this December which I didn't have to do a lot for I I just I had to edit it and do some write an introduction, but it's called don't split the small stuff every day, and it's 365 chapters of don't split the small stuff paired down to a day like a really like a one page reading. So it's it's that's a day like a really like a one page reading.

Sandy Kruse: 24:25

So it's it's that's a new, that's going to be a new add on to our brand and and so would you say then, richard, is really like living almost through you, because you many things that can happen. There can be tragedy, there can be illness, death, divorce. So many different things happen to us.

Kristine Carlson: 25:04

It happens to your kids. It's not just about you, it's about your parents, your kids, your friends. It's really, yeah, so much happens. In midlife it's like you never prepared for it. Midlife it's it's like you don't. You're never prepared for it, but it sure does it does.

Sandy Kruse: 25:19

And I feel almost like you know one of the things, because I could totally relate to you on the writing aspect. When things are just flowing and you're really in your purpose, you feel like you're in your purpose, you're in your vibe and you know, I always tell even people who are not writers I'm like just journal. Nobody's reading it. You don't have to, you don't have to present this to the world Like it. Just somehow it provides you with almost like a destination on. You know where you want to go, even for the day, if you want to think short term. So I always talk about these little signs as breadcrumbs. You had way more than breadcrumbs. I mean you had a lot of signs to do what you're doing now and you followed them. And it doesn't mean that you were hiding your grief or that you were stifling it. You said you cried when you needed to cry. I think it's important to.

Sandy Kruse: 26:24

But then the other thing I want to touch on you had resources of people who you knew, who kind of helped you move through it all. How was that? What were these? Because I know for me I mentioned, okay, catholicism at that time. It didn't help me. I actually, when my daughter was sick. It was after I was sick. After my daughter was sick, I'm like something's got to change. I don't know what. I actually saw a shaman. I saw different healers from different areas of wellness alternative health, regular health so what did you do? Who did you see to help get you through all of this?

Kristine Carlson: 27:17

Well, like I said, I had a community of girlfriends that were all in communication with each other about me that I didn't know until one day I went out to lunch and I realized they had this communication going on and it really suddenly hit me that they were on an email thread making sure that I was like somebody was reaching out to me every day and and I and I, and so that was really just incredible. But I also had some really amazing people that were friends of Richard's. Another amazing story is from john welsh ons, who wrote this book called Awakening from Grief and you know, I never really knew before I went through grief, what he meant by awakening. But then, after I went through grief, I was like, oh, now I know what he means by awakening. You know, like it's like a beautiful spiritual awakening through grief. And so he was. This is another great story.

Kristine Carlson: 28:20

John and Richard were great friends and when Richard died he was on his way to New York. Well, he was going to be doing a bunch of publicity for his latest book and he called John and said, hey, maybe in New York, let's get together. John lived in New York, and so let's get together. John lived in New York and so let's get together. So they made a date to get together. Well, when I had to um find somebody to identify Richard, because there's no way I was getting on an airplane and leaving my kids and, you know, going to New York, I mean, my husband just died on a plane there's just no way I could do that. So I um called John and I asked him if he would go and identify Richard for the um, you know, for the what is it the autopsy for? To, you know, to to to go through the autopsy process and all of that. And somebody needed to, you know, sign off that this was indeed Richard Carson. So John said, of course I will do that.

Kristine Carlson: 29:23

Well, when John made his appointment with the woman who was, you know, doing the autopsy at the morgue when he made his appointment, he looked in his cash goes come at friday, come on friday at 11 o'clock. He opens his date book and there it is richard is in his date book on friday at 11 o'clock and and he had to he was just like, oh my God, that is crazy that Richard's not even going to miss his appointment with me, you know, like Gosh. And so he went to do the viewing. And John said, when he walked in, he's only felt the sense of love and peace that he felt in that room with Richard. When he went to the tomb of his guru, meher Baba, and he said he has only felt that incredible, surreal, just overwhelming sense of love and peace in that, those two places. When he went to, you know, to view Richard and spend some time with Richard just a couple of days after he died, you know, so yeah, it was just so many things.

Kristine Carlson: 30:44

So, when I say there were so many things, there were just so miracle upon miracle upon miracle, told me that this was indeed Richard's time and and that he somehow knew it based on some of the behaviors that were that he left behind us, um, in our home, like notes, and you know just, everything was done, everything was taken care of. You know just, even like he had taken my notebook, that I had a project going on and he'd written all of our account numbers in it. I mean, I wouldn't have known where all of our stuff was because he managed that, but there it was in my notebook, all of these accounts with the account numbers and what the money was in there. And you know just, we had done our estate plan a year before. You know, we just signed off all of our paperwork the year before. You know, just, we had done our estate plan a year before. You know, we had just signed off all of our paperwork the year before. You know.

Kristine Carlson: 31:40

Just, I just knew, you know, based on so many things, it gave me so much faith to know that he was in the place, that he was supposed to be in, you know, and that I was somehow meant to be on this journey, you know, and and it wasn't an easy journey, there was nothing easy about it. It's not. It's never easy to let go of somebody that you just hold so dear and so are so in love with. And God help the people that have lost a child. You know, I I don't even know, because my children definitely brought me back into my body when I got the call that Richard had died. Just the mere notion that I had children kept me alive for that first five minutes afterwards. So you know, I don't know, it's a that is the largest loss that anyone can go through. And I have friends that have lost children and and some of them have done well and some of them haven't. Some of them just cannot return from the deep, deep grief. Permission. They grant themselves permission to go through loss and to miss their child every day, but to bring their child with them in the same way I bring Richard with me. You know, even amidst.

Kristine Carlson: 33:03

You know I'm, I'm, I'm, I've been like, I have a boyfriend. You know I've moved like forward in my love life. I've moved forward in my life in so many ways. You know I don't, I don't, I know that I'm in this life as a woman to live a full life and my life has been very full after Richard's death. You know it's in some ways I'm living much more on purpose and to my purpose than I might have been had he lived. And and that's because you know I wouldn't have discovered what I discovered about myself through loss, that you know I wouldn't have known or wouldn't have wanted necessarily or known that I was here to really serve others in that capacity and to be that sort of guiding light for people who have gone through a huge loss. You know, so it's, it's been an incredible journey and I'm sure yours has too. Like it's like who knew, you know who knew.

Sandy Kruse: 34:02

I think something that you mentioned there about getting past, where there's some people who can get past it and some who can't the one thing that we often have as women is we have this guilt, and maybe it's this guilt of service, and you know like you know when you're, if your husband passes away, like yours, or if your child passes away, you feel a guilt. If you want to live a fulfilled life, and I think that is what holds a lot of people back not being able to get past that point it's like it's okay, you know you can't bring them back, so you're left here.

Sandy Kruse: 34:45

You have to live.

Kristine Carlson: 34:48

Yes, the permission piece. It's the permission that you grant yourself to go on and to live, live a full life. I've done so much work with women and I. There's a point at which I see a woman struggle with her grief and what she thinks that love is, and there's this switch and when it switches on, it's just the most beautiful thing. When she suddenly realizes and I've said this to so many women over the years, I say you know, if the table was turned and it was reversed and you were the one that died, what would you want for your partner, what would you want for the person who survived your loss? And it's that moment where the light goes on and they know that their person is rooting for them, like cheering for them, like wanting them to live and to make the most of this very short time that we have on this earth Very, very short. You know I love Anita Morjani.

Kristine Carlson: 36:02

She had that near-death experience and wrote that book Dying to Be Me, and I interviewed her last year for our Book book doulas program for a spirit writer conference that we held and she said that in her near death experience she learned that it is the most precious gift that we get is to be here on earth for the short amount of time that we're here and that we think that it's much better to be in spirit world at some point. You know, and surely when your body is breaking down or my dad is at 91, he definitely feels that way right now, he's made the most of his life but when you're a midlife or you know, even in your sixties and seventies, and you've got all this energy and life to live, it's a tragedy to let that go and it doesn't mean you don't go through a very like a grief period. But to think that grief is meant to last forever is a real myth. And I say this, I say you miss and long for the human person that you knew and to hear their voice and to laugh with them and live life with them for the rest of your life. But missing them and being in grief are two very different things, because you get used to missing them them.

Kristine Carlson: 37:41

But if you hold yourself to living a life of grief and despair and darkness versus choosing light, love and joy, that's a choice and that becomes a choice and you must give yourself permission to honor yourself, honor your person that you've lost, honor this life by choosing life and it's hard and it's not always. It's a hard process and there is tremendous guilt Everyone faces. You know what they call survivor's guilt. It's very much a part of the process, but I think the permission piece is really huge much a part of the process.

Sandy Kruse: 38:16

But I think the permission piece is really huge. It's interesting because you went through it very young which is the tragedy piece and you had two young daughters that you had to raise yourself. But everybody goes through that for the most part. Not many couples get to die together and you know you mentioned your dad, who's 91. My dad's 87. And my mom is still alive, she's 78. She's nine years younger. About this even when people are elderly, that they don't give themselves permission to continue and live a life of joy after that grief, of course you're going to grieve, like my parents are about to celebrate their 60th anniversary. They've been together forever. You're going to grieve, but it's almost like you don't see a lot of people give themselves that permission.

Kristine Carlson: 39:16

Yeah, well, I think you know I see my parents that way too. My, my mom is 87. And my dad's 91. And my dad hasn't been. You know, he's been well in his mind but not very mobile for the last couple of years. He's been kind of getting more, less and less mobile. So my mom is sort of picking up the slack on everything and she's you know she gets tired. I mean, she's had her health concerns over the years but she's come out of them and she's strong. She gets tired and yet I feel this, I feel like my mom still has a lot of life left to live, like I feel like she's going to be around, and you know, and I don't feel like my dad does.

Kristine Carlson: 39:59

I feel like, you know, I feel like my dad is definitely winding down and that day is is coming, you know, fairly soon for him and according to his prayer, he's really funny, he talks a lot about you know how he's ready and I think you know he wants to prepare me.

Kristine Carlson: 40:21

He wants to me to know that every time I see him it could be the last time, and you know, and I definitely feel that. You know, I feel that that I get a little anxious. You know in the pit of my stomach, even what I know to be true now, that death is not permanent. To be true now that death is not permanent, death is only a transition, a change of one form to another form. And yet I still, I still feel sad. I've been so blessed, like you have, with having parents our whole lives, and you know, and I, I, so I try to get back there, I try to spend as much time with them as I can and and, yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough, you know, it's a tough thing to see the elderly and their life.

Sandy Kruse: 41:01

It's you hit a soft, soft spot with me. I need a tissue because you're making me think of my dad.

Kristine Carlson: 41:07

So yeah, I feel you, christine you watch your mom you know to like and you think, well, how is she going to do this? Well, my mom has really good friends. I hope your mom does too. My mom is in a community.

Kristine Carlson: 41:21

Yeah, and I can see these older women like there's two that I'm thinking of in her PEO sisterhood that they're like last time I was there. They're like Pat, there's these new places that help come in our area. You know, they live in this little retirement community and I'm like, and my mom's actually getting kind of you know she's getting excited about it. Now, my dad isn't.

Kristine Carlson: 41:42

he wants to stay in his house and she just she's like oh, he's going to leave all the cleaning out to me, you know, you know, and she's like tells him all the time, well, I could go first, ted, you know, and he doesn't think so. So but yeah, it's just a tough, it's a, it's a tough thing and to be that connected to somebody for that long, you can see how, you know people like that are that connected, die, you know, very quickly after each other, like because they just can't. The grief, grief is so tough on the body, it really is. It's so, so tough and I, you know, I often thought about that like this is so painful, like in the body. I mean, you know it's like I don't know how people like go through this that don't have the tools. You know it's like so painful. So I can see how older people they just, they just say I'm done, or their heart breaks. You know they're, they literally die Like.

Kristine Carlson: 42:42

Did you hear that story about Debbie Reynolds? You know she was, she was older, like she was in her I don't know, want to say early eighties and her daughter died before her and she died like two days later and she was perfectly fine, but she had a broken heart and she died of a broken heart and you know, I think that's altogether possible when somebody's had a full life and they they feel done. You know.

Sandy Kruse: 43:12

Wow, you know, there's just so much, so, so many different places. I could go with that because I believe that we do hold a lot of the pain when things happen, when tragedies happen, traumas, tools to. I don't think we ever really heal entirely. It's like what you said, like it's not, like you forget and you never think about it again. I always look at it like scars. So I have a scar. I don't you know, you could still see it. It's still there, but I'm over it now. I'm over the surgery, I'm over the trauma, but it's always there. You'll never really forget it. But when you don't get over that pain, I think it can cause illness, trauma, death in you.

Sandy Kruse: 44:14

I know some people would think this is really woo, but with my daughter getting sick, I did not have the tools I didn't have I had. The one thing I had was a very close family, friends. I had such a great circle around me. But the other tools, the tools for me, only my spiritual tools, weren't there and I held a lot of pain. And then, you know, for me to have cancer exactly one year after she was diagnosed. You know it's not that I didn't have a thyroid problem before, but what made that switch? Was it that my body was in this tense position for like almost a year? I was always. I had no control. It was like this loss of control. I didn't know how to help her. You know like it was weird. But I do feel that people can get sick from not being able to overcome Right.

Kristine Carlson: 45:20

Oh, absolutely Absolutely, by holding that emotion inside or just not acknowledging, not allowing yourself to go through it. I didn't want grief to turn into something else. I wanted to live it as it was present and when it was present. And you know, like I said earlier, I hope that I would return to a life of joy. I didn't know I would, I didn't. I mean, I didn't know how long it was going to take or anything. I did know that I would feel better the days that I allowed myself to be in it, and the days when I couldn't, I could not not allow myself to be in it. You know, I just be in it, I would feel better. And that was what kind of guided me. You know, like you say breadcrumbs, you know, I always tell people that are in loss.

Kristine Carlson: 46:27

One time I was speaking at a conference, and it was on grief, and an older gentleman came up to me and he was just the sweetest older gentleman you could tell in his day. He was a real looker, you know, he was just really sweet. And he said I don't know, christine, how I'm going to live without my wife. I just I don't have the desire to live. And I said, I whispered in his ear as I was hugging him. I said you don't have to know anything, but what you do need to do is you've got to think of one thing every moment that excites you. You've got to follow something every moment that gets you to move forward on some level. And I said it could be your dog, it could be calling somebody, it could be getting coffee at the local coffee store, it could be. But just ask yourself to follow the breadcrumbs of what excites you in this moment, even if it's the smallest thing. And if you can't come up with anything, make something up and believe it until you, until it penetrates you. You know, and and he, I don't ever know what happened to that man, but that was what I, what came to me, to say to him.

Kristine Carlson: 47:39

And I think that's where a lot of times, when we're in survival mode, we have to be in that mode of just doing one, putting one foot in front of the other and asking ourself to look for something that could inspire us. You know, for me it was being out in nature and going for a walk or being with a really close girlfriend that could hold me in my grief, but not try and fix me. You know, those kinds of things helped me a lot. And I just want to go back to something you said.

Kristine Carlson: 48:10

Um, cause I found this, that I found that when I, when my heart was broken you know, the reason I called my book heartbroken open was because I found that heartbreak and loss. It opened my heart and it cracked me wide open in a way that I never knew that I wasn't open because it was so big. It was so much bigger than anything I'd ever had happen to me. And what I found is that my heart actually grew bigger, that I didn't carry the wound in that way, that I actually opened up to more life and to more love and to more compassion.

Kristine Carlson: 48:57

And and maybe it was because I was more shut down than I ever thought, you know, it was like I didn't realize that I was kind of going through my life a little numb, you know, like I had all these programs I would say to myself growing like at this stage of my life when I was raising a family, oh, you don't have anything to cry about, look at your life. So I would never cry Like I would never allow myself, even though, like I had a period, I was like I had PMS. I wanted to sit down and have a good cry now and then, but I could never make myself or allow myself my tears. Well, I started to realize in grief how humanly destructive that was and how I had a wall around my heart that I was protecting myself in a way. I didn't even know and that was one of the most beautiful things was that wall? Just it just broke and shattered and I was open, like I was like an open book, like I became myself and I became more of who I am, not less of who I am because I opened to this beautiful process of healing.

Kristine Carlson: 50:07

And I think that's the hope I like to hold out for people is that you really kind of can go the bitter route or the wounded route, or the victim route, or you could go the hero route and the choose the path of you know I'm going to heal, I'm going to step into my life, I'm going to I don't know how it's going to happen, but that's what I know I want for myself and then to feel okay about that, to feel good about that, to step in, and that is what being the hero is, that's all it is is just not becoming that human sacrifice to what's happened to you, but choosing the path of healing.

Kristine Carlson: 50:49

When you choose the path to heal, you choose the path to open to what's happened and start to ask yourself perhaps this actually happened for me on some level. Not that you wanted it, none of us want bad things to happen to us, but when they do, we don't really have a choice after the fact that they happen. But we do have a choice in how we move forward and I like to hold out the hope that we actually we don't have to live a wounded life. We can live a life where we're living outside of those whims. Of course, we carry the empathy and compassion and we carry the wisdom that those things bring to us, the incredible depth of life that you can't almost learn any other way, like you can't read that in a book and get it, the same way that when you live through it.

Kristine Carlson: 51:43

Just like I don't know what you lived through. I haven't had cancer, I don't know what that's like to be that person. You know, I can only imagine, but I don't know. And but you, sandy, look at what you've done with your life, like how you help people, and the trajectory, the hero's journey that you've walked is incredible, that you help people discover their health, probably in ways they never imagined. So you know, I think this is the beauty of of when you do walk the hero's path.

Kristine Carlson: 52:18

And I did write a book called from heartbreak to wholeness the hero's journey to joy, called From Heartbreak to Wholeness the Hero's Journey to Joy.

Kristine Carlson: 52:30

So I totally have equated that whole hero's journey and I used my friend Lisa, who's my, one of my best friends, as an other through line story in that book because while I was writing that book, she was given the news that she had breast cancer and so I and she had stage three breast cancer. So I, while I was writing that book, I dedicated that book to her because I watched her go through that as the hero. You know she walked the hero's path through that whole ordeal and now, as she's doing really well, she's in remission and she's been cancer free for a really long time now. And but you know, I think we go through an incredible loss of our identity through a lot of different ways and you can lose the identity that you have with your health. I think I would imagine, when you have the news that you're suddenly not healthy, you know that's a whole identity crisis too that we go through. But you could speak to that and do speak to that much better.

Sandy Kruse: 53:32

I think you know you mentioned you can walk the wounded path, the victim path, or more of. I'm going to lead a more inspired life as a result of this. So what do you think? Because I definitely went through the wounded path, that was that whole tightness within me and I do feel that contributed to me not being well. I definitely went through the victim path like why us, why me? We went through genetic testing and sometimes I feel like too much of the medical stuff can actually instill even more fear and a lot of that just brought more fear to me. But I had to go through that to get to that inspired path. Do you think that sometimes that's, I guess, a natural way to go through it, whatever it is, whether it's grief or illness?

Kristine Carlson: 54:37

I do. I think that we go in and out of both of these all the time. I think that those days where you feel really inspired, when you're going through anything really like your dark night of the soul, you know, I think you feel. And then there's days where you you sit down and go. I can't do this, I feel sorry for myself, but I think if you're, if you really are deep down wanting to heal that's part of it. Is is acknowledging where you are being in it, but knowing that you are healing and I think for, for, if you can return to that place of inspiration, then you are walking the path. You know you are walking the path. I think it's for the people who don't ever have that, who don't have that in their sight. That's the person I'm speaking about, or to, or giving hope to, that I want them to know that it is a choice at some level and it is.

Sandy Kruse: 55:40

And.

Kristine Carlson: 55:40

I know that's hard for some people to hear because they feel very victimized. But you know, I think if you know that it is a choice at some time, then you'll be more prepared to make that choice for yourself and maybe you have to sit in that, place things and it is a choice. That's what the research on the brain shows. You know it is a choice, so it's up to you, and people are different, people need different things. But I definitely saw that in my own life that it is a choice and I've seen women when they make that choice after a time, over and over again, and I've also seen the resistance to it.

Kristine Carlson: 56:33

I've seen people want to hold on to being a victim and I'd have to ask them you know, how has this been your life? You know how has this been who you are in your life and how has this served you? Because it's my feeling, my understanding, that being a victim doesn't serve us very well. It's not an empowered place to live and you know my path is to show people what they can do to empower themselves, to go through healing, to grieve healthily and come out the other side and live a life of joy, and that's my hope for every single human that goes through anything is that they choose to live a life of joy at some point.

Sandy Kruse: 57:19

Yeah, I think I've read that same research, that happiness.

Kristine Carlson: 57:23

From Sean Aker in the. Happiness Advantage.

Sandy Kruse: 57:27

Yes, and yes, I've seen some stay there and it's interesting because everybody talks about manifestation and that you know. I don't know what your thoughts are on this at all, christine, but to me it kind of makes sense. I feel like we're all energetic beings and, you know, sometimes they say you know when it rains, it pours. And I can definitely say for me it was a snowball effect First my daughter's sick, then I got sick, then actually my husband was sick the year after and it was all one year after he coded in the hospital. I don't talk about that part that much, but it wasn't a great time. That's a lot for you. It was all like it was three years in a row and so I call that the snowball effect and during that time I was definitely what people it's a term now I was vibrating very low. I was vibrating in this space of I wasn't, I was staying there. You know how you mentioned, some people stay there, you're very surviving.

Kristine Carlson: 58:36

I mean you're in this survival mode when you're in that place, right Like you're just surviving what's going on. I mean that's normal, you're just surviving what's going on. I mean that's normal?

Sandy Kruse: 58:44

Yeah, I guess. But I often I don't know. I don't know what to think about this, but I often wonder. Maybe you know I didn't have, like we were talking about earlier, the tools to try and bring some of that inspired life back. I was sitting in that low state without those tools to help me get out. Sure, I had my friends, my family, always very good, but personally things that I could do for my own state of mind. So if somebody's kind of living in that you know that space where they're stuck, what advice would you give them to first begin? I know you mentioned find that one little thing, even if it's that cup of coffee that you might really enjoy and go for that cup of coffee. Is that where somebody can begin? Like, how does one start?

Kristine Carlson: 59:41

Like, how does one start? I mean, honestly, the best place to start is to really as hard as it might be for somebody going through something very, very difficult and this might sound very Pollyanna and very simplistic, but honestly, the best place to start is. There's two things I would say. I would start by bringing your attention very much to the present moment, and what I mean by that is that when somebody's going through loss or a difficult time, they may notice, if they become more conscious of their thinking, that they're thinking about their past or what they're not going to be experiencing in their future.

Kristine Carlson: 1:00:27

And so what I always say is like bring your attention back to the present moment, because in the present moment you're actually, if you notice, you're okay in the present moment a lot of the time, like you know, if you have a stomachache, you have a stomachache and you notice that if you. But if it's a sunny day and you're looking outside and you're present, you're going to notice the sunny day, you're going to notice the birds, you're going to notice whatever is that play in your space, and so that's one thing. The second thing I would say is definitely think of really the smallest thing to be grateful for and focus on that. I mean, it's amazing, Like if you're in a really low mood and then suddenly you remember to drop into gratitude, a practice of gratitude, even if it's the smallest thing, like wow, I'm grateful that I'm wearing the color pink today.

Kristine Carlson: 1:01:24

You know I'm grateful that I can breathe this fresh air.

Kristine Carlson: 1:01:28

I'm grateful you know I think for people to to really like, allow themselves, to feel their gratitude. For one thing the research shows, through heart math, that when you're focused on anything that you're grateful for, the heart actually starts to experience joy. And so it's a very small way that you can kind of elevate your mood by your heart, feeling a sense of peace, a sense of joy at the smallest thing of peace, a sense of joy at the smallest thing. And and I know it's hard, I'm not saying this is easy, Nobody, nobody like you know you're not. When you're in a bad place, it's very hard to remember to do these things, or even to think that it's going to help. But again, they really does help, and you know it's. It's where I go whenever I'm having a low day. I just I simply close my eyes, place my hand on my heart, I take a few deep breaths in and out and I just ask myself to think of one small thing I feel grateful for right now, and I'll open my eyes. I'm like, oh, feel better. You know it's kind of simple but it works. And you know those are the places. You know it's always the small things that we do. It's the, it's the reaching out to a friend, it's the, it's the doing something nice for yourself. It's eating a piece of chocolate. Sometimes. You know it's like doing the things that just come to you that make you feel a little bit better. You know, if you that make you feel a little bit better, you know if you can make yourself feel a little bit better and build on that, then you start to get perspective and you start to. You know, from perspective, you start to invite wisdom and you know when we can invite wisdom. That's grace, you know. That's grace coming through us and we all have access to that. You know we do. And it doesn't mean that we have access to it all the time or every single day. But if you can get back to that place of being connected to the present moment, being connected to yourself, showing yourself a lot of gentleness, a lot of compassion, a lot of, a lot of you know what you need, which is just, you know, being able to be held, probably in this space, then you're going to, you're going to be okay. And there are days we all have that we just have to get through. But hopefully, if you get through one day like that, then the next day you recognize that it's a lot better and I also think it's the recognition that you have good days and bad days. You know it's like, and I know that people who struggle with true depression and disorders.

Kristine Carlson: 1:04:25

This isn't necessarily applied to them. You know, there are definitely people in this world that have biochemical issues and I'm really not speaking to that person. You know I can't, but I because I'm not a doctor but I do know that there are people that this would not probably work for, but I do know that there are people that this would not probably work for. I'm speaking to the woman who is basically healthy but she's having a tough time. She's struggling, you know, and and we all struggle. You know we all have struggles and, and you know I have struggles now that are hormonal struggles. You know it's like that. I never, right.

Kristine Carlson: 1:05:04

Yeah, I mean, I'm through menopause, but even then I don't have hormones anymore. So my doctor says to me you don't have any hormones, chris. I'm like, I know, you know. So there's. There's real struggles that we have and I think that's the human journey too. You know we're not. This life isn't like it's not promised to be an easy life. You know it has ease in it, it has grace in it, but we're not promised an easy life and I don't think that's what it's really about. It's how you honor yourself and how you honor the journey and how you. You know how resilient you are. I mean, resilience is a huge thing to build in your life and it kind of shows what you're made of. So it takes a lot of grit, a lot of grit and determination sometimes. But you know what we're women. We have it. We push those babies out. If you've ever pushed a baby up, yes, you've got grit yes, yes, been there, done that twice.

Sandy Kruse: 1:06:08

So hey, and even if you haven't.

Kristine Carlson: 1:06:11

There's other ways that you've been. You're. You're a strong woman. You have it within you and I think remembering that and knowing that you know we get through the unthinkable and the unimaginable, and the permission that you give yourself to live on is really the important piece. You know it's. It's it's honoring this life and honoring the life that you have and making the most of it.

Sandy Kruse: 1:06:38

I think what you said about presence you know, I think it's underrated and maybe the term, just the word, presence is overused.

Kristine Carlson: 1:06:49

It wasn't 30 years ago.

Sandy Kruse: 1:06:50

No, it wasn't. You're right Back when I needed somebody to tell me to be more present. I didn't really, you know, nobody told me that. But you know, the other day it was actually not the other, it was about a week, week and a half ago I just sat in my car and watched the sun set by myself. I parked on a country road, I turned my notifications off on my phone and I just watched the sun go down and nothing else. And you know I would have never thought to do that before.

Sandy Kruse: 1:07:26

And I also feel that our animals if you love animals, it really helps us, because we lost our one of our dogs two years ago and she was the dog that we actually got her in between my daughter's two surgeries so that we could, we wanted to bring more joy into our lives during a time that was not very joyful. So we got this little puppy and then we lost her on. It was within the same year of my daughter's last appointment at Toronto's Hospital for Sick Children. So I always believe that our animals are somehow brought to us during a time and a phase in our life, and so you know, her job here on earth was done, and it was my other dog and the presence I had with her. That helped me grieve, it helped me move through it. So my other dog, gracie, I mean she was my little savior and I cried with her and she missed her too. But there's nothing more valuable than just being present in nature, present with how you're feeling and letting your body feel it.

Kristine Carlson: 1:08:49

That is presence. It is presence at its core. It's just allowing yourself to be in it and to feel it.

Sandy Kruse: 1:08:58

Yeah. So let me ask you do you still feel Richard's presence after all these years?

Kristine Carlson: 1:09:08

I do, I do. He shows me in all sorts of ways that he's still present and yeah, and I, often I can hear him, I can hear his voice still, I can hear him laugh and I believe that I'll carry him in that capacity for the rest of my life. I think it's the way I survived was to know that our love would carry on and carry forward, and it's just helped me to just live every day and feel him present in it. You know, I feel like every time I think of him, every time I speak of him, it's like I'm bringing him with me. And it's so interesting because my grandkids I have five grandkids now from jazz and just one daughter has five kids, and Caden is now 15.

Kristine Carlson: 1:09:59

Caden is now 15 and he talks about his grandfather Richard as if he knows him. And so he said he had to give a speech. He's a really good athlete and a very, very good student. And he gave a speech and he said I carry my grandfather Richard with me. He's such an inspiration for me every day and he was known for being very loving and very kind and very present. And he said you know, I, I always, I always feel him, I always feel like he's with me and he's just a great inspiration to me, you know. So I think about like how that's happened and it's because you know I talk about him. My daughter talks about him to our kids, to our grandkids, and it helps all of us to keep his presence alive in our hearts and in our present day life, and I just think it's so beautiful to see the grandkids feel him.

Sandy Kruse: 1:11:00

Oh, I would agree, I think that's amazing. Him oh, I would agree, I think that's amazing. So then I would say then you're probably more on not believing in coincidences, you believe that these things happen for a reason. The signs, the symbolism, all of that happens for a reason.

Kristine Carlson: 1:11:21

Well, it's interesting because I, I've, I've, I used to think that and then I started to realize that I think that it's us that actually finds the reason, that, when you, that you actually search for the meaning and you know, and that, because you're looking, because you're present, these things happen and then you see them and they have such tremendous meaning, if you ask, what does this mean, you know, like we're, we're, you know. So, yeah, I do think, like there's, there's a fine line between does it happen for a reason, or do we find the reason why it happens? And, and so I've learned that I feel like, for myself, I find the reason why things happen, you know, and, and that's what helps me put my life in order, it helps me put things back in order, um, versus just you know, oh yeah, yeah, that's just a different, kind of a little bit different twist, but that's kind of what I feel about that.

Sandy Kruse: 1:12:23

Yeah, I kind of see. I think I see what you mean. I personally, when I ask for signs when I need them, like my aunt was a very big presence in my life growing up and so I always ask for signs from my aunt and often I'll find them because I'm present and I'm looking for them and I'm asking for them.

Kristine Carlson: 1:12:47

And I think the ask is the operative word, that's the action word, right. Like you, you ask and it's because you've asked that you're open to receiving right. So it's a. It's a. There's a definitely a direct link between asking and receiving and surrender and receiving.

Kristine Carlson: 1:13:05

So, and I think there's a direct link between surrender and asking you know, so when I say when people pray, I feel like when you're praying, it's like standing on the seashore with a fishing rod and you send, you cast out the fishing rod and it lands in the sea somewhere and that's where your prayer goes. You say a prayer, it goes out and you don't know when the fish is going to land or when you're going to have something on the rod. It comes when it comes, but it's sort of like that act of surrender is to let it go and then you know, be open to the answer when it comes. So I feel like asking. I often ask for signs as well, and then it's the ask that actually opens the door. If you forget to ask, you know you can't expect spirit to. You know to to just always give you. You know, like, it's really really important to ask. I believe like, and then when you do ask, then you're, you're on the lookout, right, like you're on the lookout.

Sandy Kruse: 1:13:59

Yeah, it's. It just opens up that awareness. So this has been such a great conversation. I would love for you to tell us so you have. There's a movie, a documentary.

Kristine Carlson: 1:14:16

Is it a documentary? It's not. It's a Lifetime movie. It's actually my story, so called Don't Sweep the Small Stuff of the Christine Carlson story.

Sandy Kruse: 1:14:25

Yes, cause I, I did see that.

Kristine Carlson: 1:14:28

Andrew Locklear played me. It was a blast. I love her.

Sandy Kruse: 1:14:31

That is so cool. Yeah, it was really fun, yeah. And then you do retreats. You're still writing like, tell us all about what you're, and you've got another book coming in December, so let us know everything that's happening.

Kristine Carlson: 1:14:47

Well, I you know my retreats are my special time with women. I only do women's retreats and I have several of them on the calendar. I've got a retreat that I'm doing, a what Now? Retreat, which is my signature program called what?

Sandy Kruse: 1:15:03

Now.

Kristine Carlson: 1:15:06

It's really a program designed to help women through change and transition of any kind. I have many people that come back every couple of years to my what now? Retreats. They're always say I'm going to change and transition again or I just want the. The retreat is really amazing. It's my most transformational retreat. Women's retreat is very small. It's at Sea Ranch, california. There's one in January. Then I have bringing a group to Costa Rica with my dear friend and amazing. I call her like Linda the Good Witch. Her name is Alexa Fisher. Have you heard of Wish Beats? Yes, I have. She's such a phenomenal human and she's doing a lot now more with wishing. But she and I are hosting a retreat in Costa Rica. You should come.

Sandy Kruse: 1:15:55

When is that?

Kristine Carlson: 1:15:57

It's in March, march 11th through the 16th and then I we're doing that one together, and then I'm doing a retreat in Italy in 2025, which is just a blast. That's one of my favorite retreats I do. It might be my last year for a while, but I don't know, because I did it last year, so I skip a year. Generally I do it every two years, but I had some women that couldn't come on the last one and so I wanted to roll them over into a new Italy retreat, so I decided to do it again in 25, in the fall of 25. So, yeah, that's what I have on the calendar, and then I host writing retreats. I also am a book doula with bookdoulascom, so if you have a book or you feel like you want to write a book, you can go over on over to book doulascom, and I partnered up with my developmental editor and really best friend, deborah Evans, to create that program, and so I stay pretty busy.

Sandy Kruse: 1:16:58

Busy lady Italy. I'm actually going to Croatia this month, so oh my God, how fun how fun for you, yeah, so, um, I would love to go to Italy, maybe, maybe another time.

Kristine Carlson: 1:17:11

Yeah yeah, italy is a blast and I've never been so yeah, yeah, come see how I do my retreats.

Sandy Kruse: 1:17:19

Very cool. You just you bring so much light to this world. You really do. And it's funny because we've been following each other just on Instagram. I don't know how we got connected years ago, because I think I've been following you for a long time, but somehow, you know, like I felt very drawn to you. I felt very drawn to you. I'm very drawn to your energy, I'm drawn to your light. I think you have a lot to offer to the world. I think you're just an amazing person, Christine.

Kristine Carlson: 1:17:55

Likewise, sandy, thank you so much for this opportunity to have this really rich conversation today and just thank you for what you do for the world, to make the world a better place. I know that people must love your podcast. You're just beautiful, delightful and authentic and I love all of those qualities.

Sandy Kruse: 1:18:13

Thank you Same and I will have all the links in the show notes. And once again, thank you, Christine. Thank you and once again, thank you, Christine.

Kristine Carlson: 1:18:22

Thank you.

Sandy Kruse: 1:18:24

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