Beyond the Bottle: Finding Freedom in Midlife SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 276

Important Links:

Follow Jenn Kautsch of Sober Sis here - she's got some amazing supportive programs:  https://sobersis.com/

Follow me on Substack:  https://sandykruse.substack.com/

Follow me on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sandyknutrition/

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What if the wine glass that promises relaxation is actually dulling your midlife spark? In this illuminating conversation with Jenn Kautsch, founder of Sober Sis, we explore the complex relationship between women, alcohol, and aging without judgment or rigid rules. 

Jenn shares her personal journey from "gray area" drinking to creating a vibrant alcohol-free lifestyle, offering powerful insights particularly relevant to women navigating their 40s, 50s, and beyond. We dive into surprising scientific facts about how alcohol affects women's bodies differently—especially as we age—and why the marketing of "mommy wine culture" has so effectively targeted women seeking relief from life's pressures.

This isn't about labeling yourself or subscribing to someone else's definition of recovery. It's about honest curiosity and reclaiming your power in midlife. You'll discover why willpower isn't the answer (and what actually works instead), how to navigate social situations confidently, and why the question isn't "is my drinking bad enough to change?" but rather "is it good enough for the life I want?"

Whether you're sober curious, looking to cut back, or simply interested in understanding the science behind alcohol's effects, this conversation offers compassionate wisdom and practical strategies for creating more mindful choices. The freedom waiting on the other side might just be the gateway to your most purposeful chapter yet.

Share this episode with a friend who might benefit, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review to help more women discover these important conversations!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Sandy K Nutrition
• 6:13 Integrity in the Wellness Industry
• 13:09 Meet Jen Couch of Sober Sis
• 22:07 The Gray Area of Drinking
• 32:05 The Science Behind Alcohol's Effects
• 49:21 Breaking the Drinking Cycle
• 1:04:09 Alcohol Marketing and Midlife Women
• 1:20:37 Finding Freedom and Purpose
• 1:30:37 Resources and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Sandy Kruse: 0:02

Hi everyone, it's me Sandy Kruse of Sandy K Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen. For years now, I've been bringing to you conversations about wellness from incredible guests from all over the world. Discover a fresh take on healthy living for midlife and beyond, one that embraces balance and reason, without letting only science dictate every aspect of our wellness. Join me and my guests as we explore ways that we can age gracefully, with in-depth conversations about the thyroid, about hormones and other alternative wellness options for you and your family. True wellness nurtures a healthy body, mind, spirit and soul, and we cover all of these essential aspects to help you live a balanced, joyful life. Be sure to follow my show, rate it, review it and share it. Always remember my friends balanced living works. Remember my friends balanced living works. Hi everyone, welcome to Sandy K Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen.

Sandy Kruse: 1:32

I almost didn't say my name, right, it's got to be summer soon. This is the first episode of my summer reboot series. I decided to do this and I do this every year, so in the fall, I will be going into my fifth season and entering into my sixth year of Sandy K Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen, and I'm really excited because I'm still here and most of you know I've really become big on integrity. This has been a big thing for me lately. Oh, by the way, this first of my summer reboot series I should introduce her again. It is the lovely and beautiful Jenn Kautsch of Sober Sis. I thought this was a very popular episode last year. I released this just before Christmas and really it's all about sober living and women and alcohol and all the things, and I thought, okay, we're entering into the summer season and even though most of you who listen to my podcast are over the age of 50 or in your forties at least you know, you're kind of slowing down on the boozing At least a lot of the people who follow me are, or they don't booze at all. And so this isn't a podcast to judge or anything like that. It's really just to plant a seed, and I love that. Actually, it's to plant a seed because as we age, things change. We're not 20 anymore. I mean, I think our hangovers are way worse now. So this conversation was so, so popular before Christmas last year that I decided to make it the first to introduce my summer reboot series.

Sandy Kruse: 3:37

Now I can't even remember where I was at, but oh yeah, I was talking about integrity I was at, but oh yeah, I was talking about integrity. So I have really been on this, I guess, journey where I've been around for a while now. So I graduated nutrition college in 2019, but while I was still in college, I started my social media. So it's been about eight years or so and it was really more around food as medicine and that sort of thing. And then I moved into functional nutrition and functional health and I started my podcast and really my entire premise, my friends, is to just give you options.

Sandy Kruse: 4:26

I'm not telling you how things are. I'm not claiming to be an expert in you, because nobody is. The only one who's an expert in you is you, and over the last few years, I've seen a lot of corruption. I've been approached by these pay-to to play companies. I do no promotion. The only promotion I do is my own stuff on my social media, which I do myself. But what's happened is we live in this world of pay to play. Now, everybody's an influencer, everybody needs to make money, everybody has a discount code.

Sandy Kruse: 5:06

Anyway, I actually had the fortune of being on a podcast a few podcasts and I have talked about this, and I'm talking about it more because I think it's really important for you as a listener and somebody who's really taking your health in your own hands and understanding your health, that you pay attention to who you're listening to. Hey, I've done it too. You know, there's all these people that are like larger than life personalities that speak on stage. Now that are these wellness influencers and you go okay, well, she's always giving out a code. Is she using all that stuff? I can tell you from insider scoop that they don't use all this stuff and a lot of times that affiliate money is just good money, especially when you're speaking of volume.

Sandy Kruse: 6:03

So I'm not here to call people out personally as a whistleblower, but I'm kind of here as a whistleblower to call out the industry overall, because there's nothing wrong with making money from something that you're working on and researching and promoting. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is is that everybody seems to be promoting everything these days and it's impossible to be using everything right. And then the other problem actually I'm going to throw it right back to the listener, the watcher, the person who's absorbing all of it. The listener, the watcher, the person who's absorbing all of it Well, you yourself have to take accountability. Do I really want to listen to this guy. He just seems to be full of himself and full of ego and just wants to make a shit ton of money. That's the facts. So the wellness industry that used to be very holistic alternative health, functional health has really kind of.

Sandy Kruse: 7:08

I'm going to say it's just a different leg of general health industry where, you know, cash is king and so who can you rely on? And I've actually had this question raised to me personally and I'm like you. We are okay. I know this is kind of getting into the whole woo-woo stuff, but I love that shit. Give me all of it, I just love it all. But we have entered the age of Aquarius, as they say. We were in Capricorn for a very, very long time.

Sandy Kruse: 7:47

Structure rules, you know, expert leader, you know, and I do believe, as a person who is extremely intuitive, that's really. I am very much so and I think we all are. I think a lot of us just turn it off. But as that person, I am seeing that more people are seeing fault with the system. So, people who claim to be experts, well, you know, I'm not saying that all your education and all your years of practice don't mean anything. That's not what I'm saying, but you know you're not an expert in me.

Sandy Kruse: 8:37

That's what I am going to say, and so that's where it all kind of goes back to you as the listener to go. Hmm, does this resonate with me? Does this make sense for me, in my personal situation, in my body? So these are the things that we all got to put it all back to ourselves, and I think that's the most important point here, because here we are. We can't control what all these people are doing and they're just paying to be on stage and paying to be on this podcast and paying to be called an expert here. Well, fuck, like who do you trust? Like nobody. You trust yourself. And if there's any message that I'm going to give, that will be the message. We all have to turn inwards, as opposed to this world of social media where everything is external. I'm going to get this information from this person, this information and, by the way, I am going to put a little note, a little caveat here we do get a lot of information and people do work hard.

Sandy Kruse: 9:46

So I'm going to ask you to do one favor and that is to give back by providing this free content for you, by sharing it with a friend. However you wish to share it, share it on Instagram. Tag me Sandy K Nutrition Instagram. Tag me Sandy K Nutrition. Facebook. Tag me Sandy K Nutrition. Send it to a friend through iMessage, whatever it is. If you share this episode with somebody, that's like saying thank you to me for providing this content for you, and it goes so so far, you guys. So so far, you guys. That's how I've achieved 1.4 million downloads.

Sandy Kruse: 10:27

Okay, I used to use a podcast promoter way back in the beginning, and then I'm like I don't know, like I don't know if I trust these guys. I don't know where they're promoting this podcast. Like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And so I pulled it all back to myself and I'm like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And so I pulled it all back to myself and I'm like I trust myself. And so that's what I'm going to ask of you as it relates to health trust yourself. Sure, listen to these so-called experts and then decide if it resonates. But, yes, always give back. Always give back my friends. So if you do that for me, that helps a great deal. Follow me on Instagram, facebook, tiktok. It's Sandy K Nutrition everywhere. I've been around a while now, guys.

Sandy Kruse: 11:12

I'm also a writer. I've also released my essential thyroid guide. Most of you know the whole thing kind of began well. It began with my daughter being unwell in 2010, but then I had thyroid cancer in 2011. So I wrote the essential thyroid guide. This is totally not clinical, you guys, and some of the reviews are like oh, I was expecting clinical. I'm like I very, very clearly indicate it's not clinical. It's for those of you who just want a little bit more insight to understand this really important little gland that I do not have and I'm dealing with menopause and no thyroid gland. And yes, they are connected. It's part of this beautiful endocrine system. So I am there on Amazon, I am kind of everywhere, and so if you follow me, it really just engage with my content. It goes so far, my friends. And then I'm also a writer on Substack. I'm also a writer on mediumcom. Just look for Sandy Kruse S-A-N-D-Y, k-r-u-s-e on Substack or on Medium or anywhere else that you do social media. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love you guys. I really appreciate you. You're why I do everything, because, as you noticed, I don't even have any sponsors, because it's very hard to find companies who want to align long-term. They all want to just drop their marketing dollars unspread themselves. Then, anyway, all want to just drop their marketing dollars unspread themselves. Then, anyway, I am rambling, I am on fire today. I love you guys, enjoy, enjoy the summer, enjoy your family and your friends. Lots of love to you. .

Sandy Kruse: 13:11

Jenn is passionate about making it safe for women to have a conversation about alcohol without judgment, labels or rules. She is a retired gray area drinker. Around mid-40, she was tired, stuck on autopilot. Around mid-40, she was tired, stuck on autopilot and ready for a change. Years ago she created the 21-Day Reset Challenge and has now had over 30,000 women from all over the world participate. And today we will be discussing sober living facts around alcohol for women and options for a healthier path to aging.

Sandy Kruse: 13:53

And I always like to bring in the aging aspect because most of my listeners are in their midlife or a little bit older. Technically, I guess I'm going to be 55 in January, so I would be past midlife. Because I think, what is it? I think around 40 is midlife. So it's kind of like I'm like no, no, no, I'm still midlife, I still classify myself as midlife. So there, let's leave it at that, right, jen? But I am really excited for this conversation. I had a show on sober living last year and it was really popular, and now I am so excited to welcome you, jen. Thank you so much for coming today.

Jenn Kautsch: 14:39

I am excited, sandy, we're going to get into it and I thank you for having me. It's going to be a good conversation.

Sandy Kruse: 14:47

I think so because I love how you really I don't know if present yourself as the right way, but I love how you are very welcoming to all women, without judgment in this area, because there is a lot of judgment around alcohol. So I have to ask you about what inspired you to start this. I know I mentioned it a little bit, but I always love to ask my guests a little bit more detail on their story.

Jenn Kautsch: 15:23

Yeah, yeah, well, thank you again for having me and I'm right there with y'all in the midlife or beyond. Yeah, I'm 53, married with two adult kids and, like Sandy said, I am a retired gray area drinker and we can define that a little bit more today of what that even means. But yeah, this whole midlife passion of mine of helping women really look at their relationship with alcohol without having to have a label or all the shame or stigma or stereotypes that can go with drinking, because, let's face it y'all, we live in such an alcohol centric society but yet it's still this stereotyped, often misunderstood habit that can form, that can really turn into a full blown addiction and there's a full drinking spectrum. And I didn't know any of that. I just thought I just needed to use more willpower, get it together, you know, pop myself out of that detox to retox loop and what I realized was I wasn't broken.

Jenn Kautsch: 16:34

Actually not at all. My pattern was broken and because it was a lot to do with the science and how our brain works and just the habit loop and our beliefs. Once I started unpacking that I was on the road to freedom and it wasn't that long that I was experiencing my own freedom that I honestly thought to myself. Gosh, there must be other women like me who feel this way, who are not going to necessarily resonate with a 12-step program or kind of the end of the line mentality of black and white, all or nothing drinking, and so I set out to create what I wished I could have found.

Sandy Kruse: 17:18

Hmm, I love that. So it's really a passion for you, because you saw that you needed a change. And then you know you said the word shame, and I just have to mention this because I've written about shame and one of my quotes is shame dulls your shine, and when women feel a lot of shame behind whatever it is their history, what they're doing behind closed doors, I think that shame doesn't set us up for success either when you feel that. So that's why I love what you do.

Jenn Kautsch: 18:03

Yeah, because you know, let's, let's. Let's start there, because I would say when I was stuck in this drinking cycle, I really had more of a thinking problem than a drinking problem, but I couldn't discern the between the two. All I did was feel bad. I felt bad about myself because I wasn't living in alignment with my true self. I was really living a very divided life One girl by day, super healthy, mindful, get her done, ultra responsible. And then it was just my evening habits, my drinking. That was just kind of like I'm going to open a bottle and have a glass while I'm cooking. Did I really have just a glass? Usually, no, not most of the time, because you know the bottle's open, you might as well just sip it on down. And what I noticed to your point was the more I felt misaligned and divided, the more shame crept into my life and I started playing very small. My world started to get smaller as I began to feel less worthy, less confident about myself. I was breaking promises to myself. I was literally eroding my own resilience by breaking promises to myself. So all of this was like a huge shame storm inside. All the meanwhile I'm like totally saving face out there because my drinking looked like everybody else. It looked like other friends around me. So it's not like I stood out with my drinking habits. Externally, I didn't have a big rock bottom. I didn't lose anything. I wasn't really getting called out for my drinking habits. Externally, I didn't have a big rock bottom. I didn't lose anything. I wasn't really getting called out for my drinking. It was something internally that was going on.

Jenn Kautsch: 19:52

And so part of my journey was, as you mentioned in my bio, is in my mid-40s. That's when I recognized I am just in this loop and I'm drinking more and enjoying it less. Like what a ripoff. This is not aligning in any part of my life mind, body or spirit. And my daughter had just graduated high school. She was kind of getting to reinvent herself and I thought, jen, this is kind of like your chance. This is your off ramp off the drinking highway to maybe just pull over, kind of pop the hood, see what's going on in there.

Jenn Kautsch: 20:28

And you know, quite honestly, in a bigger picture, I wanted to show up at 50, different than I did 40. And I knew for sure it was not going to be a weekend. You know, juice cleanse. I was going to do it. I was going to have to dig a lot deeper and I knew for me really the lead domino would be if I could kind of get a handle on my evening wine, o'clock and social habits around drinking and my secret drinking, the drinking that I didn't really want anyone to see. So I had all my little tricks of tricks of you know, cooking and hiding it behind the cookbook, not because I was literally hiding it, but I also wasn't putting it out there to be counted, if you know what I mean, and I know you're.

Jenn Kautsch: 21:14

some of your listeners know exactly what I mean, because they're hoping no one's really paying attention, because they don't really want to pay attention either. And so I knew for me, if I could get this drinking relationship and I do call it a relationship, because it is like having one I could get that more under control Didn't even know fully what that would mean, Then maybe that would increase more of my, you know, confidence, resilience, like do new things. Hello, sleep better, wake up with more energy, ditch the hangover. The hangovers were worse, and I didn't have one every day, but I didn't need one every day to remember the ones that really took me down to just not showing up my best self or, you know, going to a later workout class because the early one was just a little, a little too early. And so, anyway, for me this, this whole drinking part of my life, was a catalyst to get my shine back, to open it up to everything else, because once I knocked the drinking domino down, all the other ones started to fall too.

Sandy Kruse: 22:28

You know, I do feel that at this stage in our lives, as you know, let's call ourselves midlife women.

Sandy Kruse: 22:39

We're just going to go we're going to roll with that, jen. I think that a lot of times we're looking for something. We're looking for what is our passion? How are we going to live out the rest of our lives? Do we want to leave a mark on this earth? Do we want to leave a legacy?

Sandy Kruse: 23:03

You know, there's all these things, I think, come into play for a lot of us who are listening. We have kids, and when those kids are not tugging on your skirt and your pant leg and needing every second of your time, I think it's our time to go. Okay, who am I again? Because it's almost like you kind of go through a little bit of a blur when you have little kids and they need you 24 by seven and they're crawling in your bed. And I know not everybody has children, but I'm just speaking from what I know. And then when I do drink alcohol and I do on occasion, not very often I feel like all of those goals and all of those things in my mind become hazy and blurry and I don't. It's like I can't tap into that real part of myself that I want to.

Jenn Kautsch: 24:15

Yeah, yeah, totally. There's nothing worse than walking around with this internal mental tug of war or these. You know the word cognitive dissonance's kind of a more popularized word now, where it's just talking about the, the wanting two different things at the same time. It's like trying to chase two rabbits. Well, you can't catch either one, and so you know, scripture says you know, you can't serve two masters. So I really do think that that's true when you've got different activities in your life that literally have opposite outcomes and opposite goals. And you know again, it's less about right or wrong, good or bad, it's more about is it serving us? That is the better question.

Jenn Kautsch: 25:13

In fact, for the longest time, sandy, I was asking myself the wrong question which really kept me stuck in my drinking cycle and other cycles for a long time, which is is it bad enough? Like I kept looking around and seeing that I was, you know, a similar drinker, maybe to my friendship group or my husband or just the world at large, and that comparison trap actually kept me stuck, because every time I looked around and said, is it bad enough? Do I have to change? The answer was no, because I could always find someone who was, you know, drinking more, having negative consequences that were visible. External. That wasn't me.

Jenn Kautsch: 25:58

So I think to your point. A lot of this is what's going on inside. And I finally started asking myself a better question, jen is it good enough? Is this good enough for me? So it's less about is it bad enough, it's really a question is it good enough? Is it good enough for what you're wanting to do? Does it align with you? Does it serve you and the people around you? Are there any benefits to what you're doing? And if there are no benefits to what you're doing, why are we doing it? And I think that's where the real clarity and focus got to come. You're doing, and if there are no benefits to what you're doing, why are we doing it?

Jenn Kautsch: 26:31

And I think that's where the real clarity and focus got to come in for me was I just started recognizing. Oh, I've put a lot of value into my relationship with alcohol. I valued alcohol to take the edge off to, you know, be my companion in loneliness, to make something boring, laborious, like cooking dinner or being out with people you don't know. You know, make it more fun. I'm more fun. And it was almost like, you know, I was bringing alcohol into my life as the guest of honor Like, oh now, now we can get the party started, now I can relax. And it was like no, I've been giving alcohol way too much power and value. If I think alcohols can do all that for me and I can't do that for myself.

Sandy Kruse: 27:24

Oh, that's very powerful statement. So the only for me a big way that I can relate to what you're saying is when I used to be a smoker. It's like, okay, I quit in my 30s, but I smoked for 20 years and I quit smoking with my pregnancies, no problem, it was easy because I was vomiting, so that was easy. And then I remember, with my first, I started smoking again nine months after I'd stopped breastfeeding. And I know this isn't about smoking, but I'm just speaking about how I relate. So then, when I started again, it's like okay, the kids are good, now I can sneak outside and have my smoke, okay, and. And so for me I'd be like, okay, well, now I'm going to cut down, I'm going to cut down, and I'm going to cut down and I'm only going to have five cigarettes a day, because I got all the way up to 15. Right, right, and now I'm going to cut down. And then slowly I would creep back up.

Jenn Kautsch: 28:43

Totally, they're very similar.

Sandy Kruse: 28:46

Right. So like I can relate, just because the smoking oh my God, I loved it so much. And me and my girlfriends we laugh about it, we're like oh my God, we love smoking. But I know, for me I could never touch a cigarette again personally because I loved it that much, personally, because I loved it that much and I knew how many times I went down that slippery slope over and over and over again. So you know, maybe relate what I mentioned kind of to alcohol, because I know it's similar but not the same.

Jenn Kautsch: 29:26

Right, similar but not the same, but a lot of times they go hand in hand. A lot of people tend to smoke when they drink or drink when they smoke. So these are two habits that well and two highly addictive substances. I mean nicotine and alcohol are both addictive in and of themselves. So you've got that going on and then when you attach a dopamine hit to it, it becomes a reward, and then that's a different part of your brain Totally all together where you're like I want that reward. It's very difficult to moderate or cut down on something that is that rewarding, that gives you that much of a um, what seems like in the moment, a temporary value hit. It's very hard to then attach the anxiety or the restlessness or the irritability to the withdrawal of that reward. And so that is really the I mean just to simplify, the nature of an addictive substance is it pulls you back in, like alcohol. It literally creates a thirst for itself. So when you're drinking, if you want to keep that buzz on or keep experiencing what you typically experience with a drink, you ultimately have to drink more.

Jenn Kautsch: 30:52

And people, again, that have a high value, whether that's emotional, social, mental you take all that and you do it long enough and it becomes physical. But I would say most of the women I work with in my own experience it was more mental and emotional this tie that I had. So it was very hard to say I'm only going to. You know, it's kind of like breaking up with a toxic relationship or you know there's that word again relationship. It's like having an abusive, you know boyfriend that you only see on Friday nights. It's like does that really work? In my case it was easier just to sever that relationship altogether, but I didn't start out that way. That wasn't my goal initially. It was my secret desire, but I didn't think I could do it. I honestly did not think that I could really pull it off and maintain it with a spouse that drinks Again. Just so much of my social life, my world had drinking all woven throughout it, and so the thought of like never drinking again is not where I started in my mind, and that's that's why I like to work with women in the gray area, because a lot of what I coach about and teach and offer is not about hey, join Sober, sis, and never drink again, right out of the gate, right at the door, like some programs. Do. I mean if? And again, I wouldn't ever bash any kind of other program or recovery path that works for someone. So I'm out here to say do what works for you, find what resonates, find your people, find the message, the program that works. But for me it would not have worked to go.

Jenn Kautsch: 32:41

You know what? I'm just kind of curious about my relationship with drinking. I really want to cut down Secretly. I want to not want it, but that seems like secretly. I want to not want it, but that seems like like I don't know if that's possible, to not want it. So I just need to take a break long enough from it to get more clarity. And and I think that's that's where I begin with people, that's where I began in my own journey is more in a curious stance, like just really curious, like huh, that so interesting. I woke up with such good intentions this morning Like for sure I'm not drinking tonight. Like I would wake up many mornings like hit the workout, you know, have my prayer meditation time, have my you know salad, you know green juice lunch.

Jenn Kautsch: 33:25

I mean I was like ticking it down, checking the boxes and then about three o'clock in the afternoon, know, kind of low blood sugar kind of get the bonk where it's like um and I myself was not that great of a planner when it came to like meal prep and like it's getting close to dinner time, so I would find myself in a grocery store kind of right before I picked up the kids from school, throwing together kind of a last minute. You know what am I going to cook tonight. Grab some ground beef, get the ragu, get some spaghetti noodles. Oh, there's a bottle of red wine, always by the meat section. There's Prosecco by the blueberries.

Jenn Kautsch: 34:03

I mean it's unbelievable, the marketing and messaging and the association we make with, like Mexican food, margarita. You know like there are so many associations, places. You know places, people and things. It's very true. And so, yeah, I would basically walk through the whole grocery store and tell myself no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and then get to the cash wrap, get to the checkout and decision fatigue had set in. You know, it's that time in the afternoon and all of my good intentions from that morning literally would, would fail me, they would go away, and all the willpower I'd used already all day with my other healthy choices, and that's when I would usually grab a bottle that I didn't keep on hand at home because, again. I wasn't going to drink that night. That was the goal.

Jenn Kautsch: 34:57

And so I think it's very important just to start out with a lot of curiosity, compassion and realize, ladies, if you're listening to me, we've been duped. I'm going to go ahead and say it. We've been tricked. We've been duped by the marketing and messaging out there that that there are health benefits, that it really doesn't really hurt you that bad, it doesn't really matter. In fact, you deserve it. It's your reward. If you've been, you know, momming all day or been in the office, it's your ticket to freedom and it's what you need in a networking happy hour to you know, get it done. And really, what we're doing is we're dulling our spark, our shine, like you mentioned. We're taking our edge off. Yeah, we're losing our edge is what we're doing, and we are outsourcing so much of our power and so much of our sober mind to this glamorized, encouraged elixir that is not doing us any favors, especially as we age.

Sandy Kruse: 35:59

This is a great time to get into some of the research. Jen, it was a perfect segue because a lot exactly what you said there's. Oh well, you get your resveratrol from red wine and you get and it's like, well, no, I actually take resveratrol. I actually take it personally and I shouldn't. I'm not going to tell you that you need to take it. I take it because I have certain genetics that it's actually very beneficial. Not everyone should take it, that's not what I'm saying, but when you hear these things it gives you that excuse to go. Oh well, you know it's good for me to do this. So talk to us a little about the research and I know you have a lot as it relates to women specifically, and midlife women, right, that's right, in fact, midlife women, if you're.

Jenn Kautsch: 36:53

if you're watching this on video, you know, I just put on my readers so that and I got mine on, I got mine on, I got a signal that we are now looking down at small things, it's true, and, and a lot of these.

Jenn Kautsch: 37:07

You know I'm I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer it's true, and a lot of these. You know I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, I'm not trying to bring in just a list of bad news. It's just things to consider because we don't hear about it in the marketing and messaging. We don't see about it. We don't hear about what I'm about to say on the tea towels and the wine memes and all all the jokes, memes and all all the jokes. So, if anything, consider this a balance to counteract what it is you are used to hearing. Which is rosé all day. Girl, oh yeah, you've had a hard day, let's get together for drinks. Oh oh, you need, you need a glass of wine, or or it's a celebration, we've got to invite alcohol. It's a must, you know. So, if anything, consider this a counteractive measure.

Jenn Kautsch: 37:56

And what I'm about to say, these are negative consequences of drinking alcohol, which are it's basically ethanol, alcohol is ethanol and when you consider that ethanol has been, you know, given fruity flavors, lots of sugar things to kind of mask what it is, at the end of the day. It's ethanol for your body, and so it is now a proven, known scientific fact that there are no benefits to drinking any amount of alcohol. The World Health Association, the American Heart Association, have come out and said actually there are no benefits. So you've got to know and, again, make an educated, empowered choice. When you're drinking alcohol, you are drinking a toxin, you just are. It's a carcinogen. It is a known. There are known tie-ins to cancer which, again, no one wants to hear. Because when you're out there drinking you're thinking you're decreasing your anxiety, because you're chilling out and you're taking the edge off. But really what we're doing is we're pouring gasoline on anxiety, on inflammation and on other things. So what I'm about to say really applies to any age. But I will say take everything I'm saying and you know, 10x it for every decade that you've got on this earth. Because as we age, for example, our bodies lose water volume. That's something that happens in our body. So as a result, we are less able to dilute alcohol in our systems. So that's an age thing. Women already have less of the enzyme that metabolizes alcohol.

Jenn Kautsch: 39:47

So if you're going out with your guy and you're trying to keep up, drink for drink because he had one. You have one, he ordered one, you're gonna order one. You go to another place. He got one, you got one. It is not landing the same inside your body as it is for him. So, uh, you know, we know that alcohol is damaging on a cellular level. It crosses that that blood brain barrier, it goes into every.

Jenn Kautsch: 40:18

Alcohol is one of the few, few drug substances that can go everywhere in your body, so it's not just affecting one part. You know we think of our liver. Oh, the poor liver. You know we've drank too much. Our poor liver, know, no, your poor body, because a lot of your, a lot of your, all of your systems are affected to the point that oftentimes you're unable to absorb nutrients properly. That's why, when you're drinking a lot, you're actually it's not an even exchange. I used to do this all the time, sandy. I would say I would go out to dinner with my husband. Let me just paint like, let me get real again with like a story. So I would go out to dinner with my husband and we would go like let's get a steak dinner. We're meat eaters. I'm down here in Texas, so meat eater.

Sandy Kruse: 41:06

Me too. I am too eater. Me too, I am too. I'm a meat eater. Listen, I love a good steak and I'm I'm Croatian.

Jenn Kautsch: 41:17

I grew up like seeing, like pig's feet and things like that in stews. So I'm all good, we'll go out and get a steak dinner. Well, I don't know about y'all, but I have an association with steak. That you drink red wine Like that, don't? They go hand in hand, that's that. That's what I saw.

Jenn Kautsch: 41:31

So I didn't realize that while I was eating this big, hearty steak dinner with mashed potatoes and all these calories and all these, all this protein, all this good stuff and drinking a glass or two of you know, my red cab, my body was actually halting metabolism and burning through what it was I was eating until after it burned through what I was drinking. And that was a wake-up call, especially when, after a big steak dinner and I've had a glass again or two, because then we might get there and have an appetizer, go to the bar first. Again, the very social thing. Maybe I would have just a little bit more, because again the alcohol itself is saying have more, have more of me, because this feels really good in the moment and, um, you know, some people have a better off switch than others. Mine tend to break sometimes.

Sandy Kruse: 42:33

And I know you've got a listener out there who's like she just said, her off switch didn't work.

Jenn Kautsch: 42:38

Mine didn't work real well either. Now I could, I could jiggle it, I could make it work, I could, I could stop. In fact, I could stop drinking anytime I wanted. But oh, one more, come on, it can't hurt. I didn't drive here, my husband drove. You know, whatever I worked out today, in fact, I would oftentimes have maybe one more or a little port or a little dessert drink so I could drink my calories. In fact, that would be my cute little answer Can I just drink my calories and I would have more.

Sandy Kruse: 43:10

I wanted to ask you about that, jen. Is there any research about, because I've seen this, where women will drink instead of eating, totally a thing.

Sandy Kruse: 43:27

It's a thing, right, because I've seen it and you know I I mean, I remember being younger and saying oh yeah, you know, you get a buzz much faster, right, so you don't have to spend as much money drinking at the bar. It was logical. However, to me, like now at my age, I'm like oh my God, like isn't that dangerous? Like don't you need to have a little bit of a base? And I'll be like you know, you got to eat something before. And I say that to my kids. I'm like make sure you eat something before you drink. So is there any research around this? I've always wondered.

Jenn Kautsch: 44:03

Well, I mean definitely, definitely, the research is first off. Yeah, I mean, mean, if you are choosing to drink, I would definitely um do that with something in your system to to help absorb, um, some of what you're putting in there, because again, it's going to shoot across, um, you know your different, your different receptors, your different parts of your body very quickly and so, um, yeah, I, I've done that. I've worked with a lot of women who've done that. They're too tired when they get home. You know the wine's calling. In fact, I've worked with a lot of women that have done you know, weight watchers, or my fitness pal or all the different apps out there where there's points and you can actually, if you look at it, well, I'm just going to use my points for wine instead of my points for dessert or my points for a meal. It's not the same, these points are not equal to your body.

Jenn Kautsch: 45:02

It's not food. It is not food. And I don't know how many times I had focused on maybe more what I was drinking and then what I was eating as the side, like cheese and crackers, like a little charcuterie tray, but like the main thing was and I didn't consciously think this while I was doing it, but for sure it's exactly what was happening the main thing was what I was drinking and everything else was kind of a side.

Sandy Kruse: 45:33

And just one point. I do want to make this as just as a nutritionist. Yeah, yeah, at our age, just to be able to assimilate and use our nutrients that we do take in, it gets a little bit more difficult. You know, maybe our stomach acid is not optimized, maybe our hormones are off and maybe our metabolism has slowed down. So there's many factors there's already a lot going on.

Jenn Kautsch: 46:07

So when you're in your kitchen just kind of mindlessly sipping and mindlessly snacking, it's really doing a number on all levels. And that was me oftentimes, especially if the kids had sports or my husband was out of town. It was kind of lazy on my part because I thought, you know, had sports or my husband was out of town. It was kind of lazy on my part because I thought, oh, I'll just pour a drink and have some cheese and crackers. It wasn't. It wasn't, um, like, oh, I'm going to try to, you know, get drunk or, you know, take my mind out of, out of reality. It was, it was more of a mindlessness and I think that that's. That's part of the biggest part of my message is mindfulness, sober-mindedness, being awake, alert, aware in our own lives. This living on autopilot is crushing us ladies because we're just. We do get in that habit loop.

Jenn Kautsch: 47:00

What started to me as a real treat, a real pleasantry, a real book club, you know, date night turned into Tuesday night while I'm cooking and the kids are doing homework. My brain didn't understand the difference, it just wanted the reward and I felt well, if anything, I need a reward for sure on a boring old Tuesday night with not much going on, on a boring old Tuesday night with not much going on, and so it's just really easy to slip into that mindless sipping, mindless eating, and then, before you know it, you're like dadgummit. I did it again, dang. It's like 10 PM, I'm eating, you know, chips and queso. What's happening?

Sandy Kruse: 47:47

I would never do that if I were mindful or in my sober mind at 10 pm for many reasons. And then add to it, you know, you replaced maybe the wine and the cheese and crackers with what could have been a really healthy, nutrient-dense meal, which is what we all know we need more of right now.

Jenn Kautsch: 48:07

So well, it's something that would have been more life giving. You know, I talked so much about this and sober says and in life it's so true. I think oftentimes, when we get in this mindless autopilot just searching for rewards for just life being lifey, what we end up doing is we sacrifice the rest that we need the mental rest, the emotional rest, the physical rest, the rest for our souls. We exchange it in light of just quick relief. It's just like relief is so temporary and it's such instant gratification. It's just like relief is so temporary and it's such instant gratification and we live all of us, myself included in such a society that just says you just deserve it, just go for it. I mean, you know YOLO, remember when our kids used to say that you only live once. So there's just kind of this, you know, when we opt for just quick relief versus real restorative rest, restorative eating, things that replenish and restore us, versus just deplete us more, because actually that's what alcohol is doing.

Jenn Kautsch: 49:18

When you're tired, when you're stressed, when you're bored, when you're lonely, when you're overwhelmed, women tend to drink more for emotional reasons than men. Men tend to drink more for emotional reasons than men. Men tend to drink for more social reasons than women, believe it or not. Now I say we all drink for all of those reasons, but that's a real distinguish thing is that, yeah, women tend to drink due to emotional triggers, whereas men typically drink more for positive social reinforcement. So it's like we're watching football with the guys got to get a beer. For women, it's like, well, we want the champagne or the mimosa too at the baby shower, which is a whole topic in and of itself. Having mimosas at a baby shower with the prego that can't drink one with you, shower with the prego that can't drink one with you the star society today, um, but yeah, it's, it's crazy.

Jenn Kautsch: 50:12

So I I think, I think it's almost reverse engineering what we're doing, reversing it back to what do we really want? What do we really need? Do we really need quick relief that's gonna, um, take from us days later? I mean, when you drink this is just a scientific factoid when you drink alcohol and the effects of that alcohol, from a physiological perspective, take you out of that homeostasis for about seven to 10 days, wow, yeah, let that sink in in y'all, because I did not know that either. That's why I think the science is so important. When you drink on a Friday night, your cortisol is still higher on a Monday than it would have been otherwise. So there is and again, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a nutritionist, but I do know from all of my research and my own experience what I've read that my anxiety increased for days after drinking, not just the next morning Days, because it's still getting out of your system, and that's why I think so many women who have such good intentions.

Jenn Kautsch: 51:26

Again, my heart is for you. It is out of compassion that I'm sharing these things, because I myself was really just in the dark on this stuff. I didn't know. I thought I was just a weak-willed person that needed to try harder, get it together, apply everything that I was applying to my disciplines by day to be more disciplined by night, and I couldn't do it with this. Willpower did not work. Deprivation mindset did not work. A bunch of rules broke up didn't work. Shaming myself didn't work, and those were all of the things that I had tried on repeat for about five years while I was trying to change this habit on my own, in isolation, and it just, it just didn't take me anywhere. And so I think when women know more, it's empowering, but when we do something with it. It's transformational, it's truly life change. And so I want you to know if you're listening and you're like man, she's reading my mail there is great hope, there is a way out of this cycle.

Jenn Kautsch: 52:31

But you do have to really go back to your why, your W-H-Y, you know. Why do you want to change, reverse, engineer it back? What are you doing? Is it really serving you? Is it working? Is it actually working? Are you taking the edge off or are you down and out for the next two days in a subtle way.

Jenn Kautsch: 52:51

That's just not your best life. You're still high, functioning, you're getting everything done, but you're dragging around this headache, this a little bit of irritability, this anxiety. And then what happens is we drink and it goes away for just a brief period of time. All of those quote symptoms go away because alcohol is anesthetizing the anxiety, the overfeeling, the overthinking, the overdoing, the codependent, all that. It's literally. It's numbing everything. Brene Brown is very famous for this quote. You know you can't selectively numb, so you can't numb out your anxiety and keep a lot of your confidence and resilience. It's going to go out together. And so I think that's something to ask ourselves. You know, what are we really wanting here, and is what we're doing really serving us? Is it providing what we're really looking for? I have found in my own journey of just being on this sober curious now alcohol-free journey that being alcohol-free has honestly provided everything that drinking promised but never delivered.

Sandy Kruse: 54:10

I did read some research about that whole cortisol. I know Huberman.

Jenn Kautsch: 54:16

Yes.

Sandy Kruse: 54:17

He talks a lot about alcohol and the effects of alcohol, and I did hear or read him talk about the research on cortisol. So for anybody who's not sure what that is, that's your stress hormone. And here's another thing that is, I'm sure, often not talked about, and I know this because it's in discussions with menopausal women. All the time, when your ovaries shut down and they're not making your sex hormones, guess what has to make them your adrenal glands. And guess what your adrenal glands make? They make cortisol. And if you're constantly overproducing cortisol, which is your stress hormone, you're going to lack in other areas where your adrenal glands need to work. Like if you're one of these women who chooses not to go on bioidentical hormones, you ain't going to have any if your adrenal glands are not functioning well. So I think you know. The one thing that's probably not talked about is how everything is so interconnected in our body. It doesn't work in silo our systems.

Jenn Kautsch: 55:39

We kind of want it to because we like to compartmentalize our lives. Like I'm this, I'm this woman by day, I'm this woman by night. I'm I'm like this on vacation, but I'm like this at home. I'm like this on a Friday night, but not a Tuesday night. But our bodies don't know the difference and oftentimes you know that seven to 10 days number.

Jenn Kautsch: 56:01

I work with a lot of women who are, again, so health conscious and so mindful that they'll go Monday through Thursday without drinking and it's the whole. But it's the weekend. I'm not going to drink during a work week I got to look alive, sis, you know, during the work week, but on the weekend, oh, it's my time, it's my time to chill, relax. You're never getting out of the craving cycle All week that you're not drinking, you're pining away deep down, physiologically, you're going through withdrawal symptoms and again, that sounds so like whoa withdrawal. We think about it for like an addict on a park bench with a paper bag. No, withdrawal symptoms happen all the time. It happens with sugar, it happens with a lot of things. When you're going through withdrawals, it's just everything that goes up must come down, and so all that means is it could be, you know the brain fog, the higher anxiety, a little bit of restlessness. Well, you can feel that way Monday through Thursday and just think it's your age, it's your work and it may be some of those things. But if you're drinking on the weekends you're also trying to plow through all the withdrawal symptoms throughout the week. And then that's why Friday, friday, quitting time, friday one o'clock, five o'clock, the pull is so strong because you've waited all week with that release and again attaching that mental, emotional, social value to it. And that's why mindful awareness of your body, day in, day out, weekday, weeknight, you know, weekend is really empowering. Because now I look at my life on a continuum of how can I be more present and how can I be more healthy versus, oh, it's this day, it's a cheating day.

Jenn Kautsch: 57:58

Again, I'm not about perfectionism. I think that actually drives people to drinking. I think perfectionism and people pleasing and high performance, which again I've described women I work with often, because I work with women just like me who tend to be type A go get her done. You can only hustle and do that for so long and then you're going to crash and burn. So what I've also discovered is self-care.

Jenn Kautsch: 58:23

What does that look like day in, day out, throughout the day, not just a spa day for four hours every six weeks, but like every day. How do you have that release valve? How do you get your rewards elsewhere? How do you even keep the ritual of decompressing and unwinding without using something that just provides quick, instant relief but actually takes from you? You know, to me that's the journey and that's where it gets really fun and exciting to create that kind of lifestyle where you're like, wow, everything can be more of a deposit, instead of always trying to balance out, deposit withdraw, deposit withdraw.

Jenn Kautsch: 59:03

That's what moderation was for me with drinking. It was like, okay, well, I can drink here, but then I'll have to juice cleanse there. And it was like it was more work for me than just going. Well, I'm not perfect and you know I don't always eat great and sometimes I skip a meal. That's not great, unless I'm, you know, purposeful. And so it's more about mindfulness and more about choosing than it is about social pressure, peer pressure, even at our age, in our fifties or above, um, the, the peer pressure, the social norm of come on, just have a drink, just have one. I mean, what if you don't want one? What are you going to say? What are you going to do? And that's a lot of the inner work is getting back to your alignment, your true self and your balance, and then going out there and just staying true to you, but being supported enough to do that so you don't feel alone being supported enough to do that, so you don't feel alone.

Sandy Kruse: 1:00:09

Another thing I just want to mention briefly like I know that's I've heard this term before is hangxiety. Yes, right, and for me personally, I I don't get that way. I get very down. So there's different people will feel differently. I know I get down and alcohol is a depressant, isn't it?

Jenn Kautsch: 1:00:36

Totally it is a depressant. It can feel like a stimulant when you're doing it, because it's just a sugar hit and because a lot of that is also metabolizing into sugar too. So it's like we, this is fun, I can dance longer, I have more energy. Oh, you know, sandy or Jen's getting tired, they need another drink. So it'll kind of be an upper. No, not really, it's really a downer. It just feels good in the moment, so it's a trick. It's kind of a trick because, um, yeah, you're really. It's really an artificial high that you're feeling. It's kind of a euphoric, temporary high and wow, like I said, everything that goes up must come down. So there's this chemical perhaps you probably know more about it than I do called dinorphin, that literally counteracts a lot of that artificial dopamine spike that rush it. And that's what usually happens when I talk to women about the 3am wake up call. That's what I call it the 3am or where and again, you can have that for a lot of reasons hormonally and whatnot.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:01:40

But if you've been drinking that 3am, that kind of racing heart beat, the feeling of dread, that's the other side of the alcohol. That's the other side. That's the coming down and that can feel really debilitating in the middle of the night because you're laying there thinking about all your responsibilities the next day, how you're not going to do this again, how you're not going to do this again, how you regret it. And then you wake up and then starts the cycle again the detox to retox loop, all the good intentions, all the trying to sweat it out with all the hot yoga. You can possibly fit in your schedule. Go for the 90 minute class, you know, like plus. It's so rough because you're already super dehydrated. You're already dehydrated and then we try to sweat it out, sweat out the toxins. I know I did hot yoga for a decade. Okay, can I?

Sandy Kruse: 1:02:35

just tell you something. Really, this is totally an aside and I'm not sure, so anybody who's listening, go research this, cause. I'm not sure if this is 100% true, but I have heard that when you do do hot yoga, you're not even detoxing because your body is in such a high state of stress that you're not even. And if you're detoxing just alcohol, or you think you are are you really Cause? Remember, when you're detoxing and sweating like that, in order to detox you have to have a really good foundation of minerals in your body, right? So just something for everybody to think about.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:03:18

I'm not a hundred percent sure on this, but I can tell you just from my own experience, going into a hot yoga class, like a Bikram hot yoga class, which are notorious for like being pretty hardcore, hungover and dehydrated, thinking that if I can just drink enough electrolytes in the car on the way just doesn't work that way, and so oftentimes I would leave there feeling way worse and just felt like I was almost like paying penance, Like it was almost like a body kind of subconscious punishment, like get in there, sweat it out, and and I just sometimes I just couldn't even do the class because again, as we age, our bodies just don't bounce back like it, like it seemed to do when we were younger and there are physiological reasons for that and uh yeah, and then just the, the shame and the getting down on yourself and all of these things, if you don't have the right tools, strategies or a community of support, actually make you want to drink more. I mean, let's think about it. If you're in a state of mind that's down on yourself, you're feeling high anxiety, you feel terrible physically and then you take a drink. I mean, that's why there is a physical addiction side to this and people who have gone all the way down the drinking spectrum. There's about 10% of heavy drinkers that would fit into the physical addiction part of the drinking spectrum. So the majority is kind of in that gray area right, kind of like a bell curve.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:04:55

Very few people who drink truly take it or leave it don't care. Maybe they'll do a toast once a year at a wedding. They drink alcohol, but like totally means nothing. Year at a wedding, they drink alcohol, but like totally means nothing. And really, if, if, if, they knew more, they may not drink it at all. I mean it just doesn't have that connection all the way to, um, it can be very dangerous to have physical withdrawal symptoms.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:05:17

If you're in the physical, you know addiction aspect of drinking and so, um, yeah, I just think you know drinking and so, yeah, I just think you know all the things that we do to try to kind of have our cake and eat it too. For example, I would, you know, have my little nightly glass of wine while I was cooking, and then I would also be at the grocery store and not to give advertisement for this product. But there's one out there called Party Smart and it was like a capsule, it was like a supplement with like milk, thistle and all kinds of like things that were supposed to be good for your liver, and I would literally buy that in tandem with my alcohol. I mean, that's a wake up call right there.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:06:00

If you're doing that, you're not a bad person, you're just trying to mitigate what it is you're doing. That you know is not doing you any favors, but that pull, that draw is so strong and I just want to recognize that that if you are in this habitual drinking place where you can take it or leave it, but when you leave it you really are feeling miserable, deprived, left out. You don't really have the tools, you're just kind of white knuckling it. Maybe you are going through your work week without anything and then you're just kind of like binging on the weekend. Or maybe you were, like me, just kind of mindlessly sipping throughout life and taking days and weeks off in between. But it was kind of my home row key, if you will, because again, it just felt normal. It's what we did to transition from day to night.

Sandy Kruse: 1:06:48

Yeah, I'm glad that you specified that, because you gave some examples of maybe spots where you want to be more cognizant is this show. You know, whatever we talk, whatever I talk about with any guests, it's not to preach or to say that you must do this, but if you're listening, it's probably because something is resonating within you that you want to listen. So that, to me, is is great, and I think it's just like you know, if somebody was to tell me oh, you know, smoking does all these bad things to you, and if I wasn't ready to listen, it would literally go over my head.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:07:36

Right.

Sandy Kruse: 1:07:38

So I'm glad that you mentioned a few, just a few examples of where it might might be. Something that you want to think about Now is a lot of your programs. Is it mindset, jen?

Jenn Kautsch: 1:07:55

Yes, I would say a lot of what I am talking about in my 21-day challenge that does start at the beginning of every month. Of course, dry January is coming up and that's a big one, but a lot of it is mindset, because if we don't go to the root of our thinking and we just do behavior modification, we can all do that. For you know, there's National Quitters Day. It's usually the second Thursday, I think, or the second week of every January. It's literally on the calendar, national Quitters Day. Because that's just behavior modification, and if we just do it all based on emotion, well, I could moderate or choose to not drink if my emotional well-being was stable, but what if it got unstable? It wasn't going to work. I had to work even back deeper and further in with my thinking, and so that's a lot of what I talk about is practical strategies on the behavior side, more how to manage the emotions. But all of these things come from our thinking and so I think a lot of it is practical, especially at the beginning when women are just like okay, I'm going to trust you, jen, I'm going to, I'm going to try to set alcohol down. For you know, 21 days, three weeks, I'm like give me three weeks and if you, if you drink during the three weeks, you're not a failure, it's. It's not this big slip up so you have to slide. You can just take it as valuable feedback. In fact, we look at it as recon, like you just got a data point. Let's use the data, forget the mistake, remember the lesson. So this is not signing up for checking boxes or being perfect. This is more of a journey into experimenting with your own body, noticing your emotions and questioning and challenging your beliefs and going back to your thinking, all within safe community.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:09:50

Because, you know, it's been said, the the antidote to addiction is not sobriety, it's connection, and I've seen it true time and time again. Because you can, you can can read all the books and and even listen to this podcast, which I hope is helping, but at the end of the day, it really boils down to having connection with other like-minded humans, in this case, sisters. We're an all women's group, so that's that's a unique flavor to to what we're talking about. We talk about everything when it comes to, you know, hormones and challenges, being, you know, a wife, a mother, a daughter, a friend, a sister. How do we manage that? Because there is an aspect of, you know, emotional sobriety and I really talk so much more about being sober minded than I do about being quote sober or sobriety. Because I do work with women who truly just want to drink less and there's room for that in our group because I think that's the best place to start. Some women join Sober Sis and they know I'm done, I don't want to drink less, I don't want to drink at all. There's a place for you as well, but I think, for me, when I just started hearing information like this, I was intrigued, I was open-minded, I was willing instead of willpower, I had willingness and I was willing to give it a short-term goal, you know, just like give it a go for a short term.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:11:22

And what happened was, you know, back in 2017, for me it was. That was a big, transformative year Again. That was the year that my daughter was moving and kind of reinventing herself, and I knew that if I wanted to show up differently at 50 versus 40, I was almost 46 at the time I was right smack dab in the middle of my 40s and two I needed to be all hands on deck. She was making a major life change and I knew that it was going to cause me some anxiety and stress and excitement and I wanted to be there for her and I knew, with the time difference me being in Texas and her moving to the West Coast I needed to look alive in the evenings. I couldn't be on the second glass of wine if she called and needed me and not be all there. So it's a huge catalyst for me. It really was.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:12:12

But I didn't start out with like hi, I'm curious, I'm never going to drink again. It was like hi, I'm curious, I want to drink less and I want to not want it as much and I want to not think about it as much. So what can I think about instead? Because I'm usually, you know, just kind of counting down, uh to is it five o'clock, yet I can wait. I can wait, that's appropriate, you know that's that's appropriate drinking five o'clock, and so I could wait, and I was just so tired of that rat race of you know, be good all day and then wait for five. For what? And? Um, yeah, so I really do invite women to start at a more curious spot and open-minded and then, um, yeah, so it was that spring of 2017.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:12:57

My first goal was six weeks, 42 days, thousand hours. And um, and I did it. I did it. It wasn't hard physically after the first week or so. That create the physical cravings of like, oh, I want a glass of wine right now. Physically, that would relieve any of my like. We talked about kind of some of those subtle withdrawal symptoms of a headache, irritability. After about a week a lot of that felt better.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:13:25

But the emotional, mental is what I was left with. And then I could see, oh, this is where the value is. And um, but it wasn't. It wasn't like I couldn't put it down. I just decided one day I think I'm done, I'm going to take a break. And um, it's been almost eight years since that time. But I didn't start out thinking I will never drink again. I started out going I would like to not drink right now. And it would be awesome if I want. If I wanted it, I could have it. And if I didn't want it I wouldn't have it. And I wanted to not want it. And it took me about a year to retrain my brain, the neuropathway to really get so newly developed that at one point I didn't want it anymore. I could have it, but I didn't want it, and that felt very different than wanting it and not having it.

Sandy Kruse: 1:14:20

Yeah, it's like do you have that willpower? So the way I always see dry January is you know, maybe because I never looked into it I would always picture it like okay, I'm going to use my willpower and I'm not going to drink, and then, as soon as it's February 1st, I'm going to crack open that bottle of wine and chug it back and get right back into my old habits. So this is just looking from an outside perspective. I'm not saying that's how it is, I'm just saying that's how it seemed or that's how often it would be presented, whether it's on social media, from other people, whether it's, you know. But the way that you talk about it, it's very different. It's being more cognizant and saying, okay, what tools can I even develop for myself during this time so that I'm not going to want it like you said.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:15:21

That are useful in February and March and April, and then the summer months, and then you've got the patios, the pools, the beaches. If anyone wants to make more change in their life, they've got to have tools that are sustainable. That can just not be, you know, like dry January. I love that. There's a quote buzz about it, pun intended. There's quite a buzz around dry January and I love that because the numbers are increasing every year, with people who are sober, curious, that's an actual term, um, but I do think a lot of people think, oh well, it's, I'll just got almost like prove to myself I don't have that big of an issue, that I don't have a problem because, see, I can do dry january. I'll just hit the, I'll just hit the pause button and then almost like celebrate that I did dry January with drinking, which again, I've done numerous times. Um, celebrate not drinking with drinking, um, and so I think, yeah, I think the opportunity is there to dig deeper and then have tools that you can build upon.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:16:29

I think it's just the beginning, not the end, and when I was doing all these 30 day challenges and detox with that in mind, of like proving to myself, you know I could. So I can't have that bad of a problem if I can stop. See, I was missing it. It was like I was literally missing the boat, missing the opportunity, and so now it's almost like an invitation to just get started. But you've got to start somewhere and I think it's easier, honestly. I mean, all the habit books say it. I love James Clear and all of his work when it comes to habits and breaking it down. It's easier to have this, this effort ladder, if you will, where you don't climb a full ladder with two rungs on it. You want as many rungs as you can. Then you just go, you just climb it, and a lot of that is by setting smaller, attainable goals for yourself, getting positive feedback, feeling momentum and then just going to the next room, just moving the goalpost a little bit, which is all I did to get to this point where I've truly created an alcohol-free lifestyle.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:17:45

It's a part of my identity. I had an identity as a drinker and then I've now switched it to having an identity as a non-drinker. Um, I don't necessarily walk around and say, you know, aka sober sister, I'm sober. I just I'm a non-drinker. I don't drink alcohol. I drink a lot of other things, but I don't drink alcohol. Um and this is a side note to my story, sandy, I don't know if you know this because I don't know if we've talked about it, but I didn't start drinking until my young 30s, really, so you didn't party in your 20s.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:18:19

I did not party. Already in high school I went to a state school here in Texas, was very active in a sorority, was totally in the mix and for me and my personality it just did not appeal to me at all. It looked kind of out of control, kind of wild, kind of rebellious. You know, back in the 80s yes, I'm totally dating myself Me too. You know 80s kid, right here, there was no Uber, there was no cell phone. I mean, if you got yourself in a pinch and you're, you know, throwing up at a frat house or you know stumbling around and your girlfriends are too, that just for me just did not appeal to me. It looked kind of scary. I'm a rule follower by nature, except for, you know, my own rules when it came to drinking as an adult. So, yeah, so I was actually a married mom working and kind of fell into the happy hour scene, fell into the networking. You deserve this. This is stressful. You know you've had a long day. This is kind of your mommy mommy wine juice.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:19:26

You know the whole mommy wine juice culture which really started about 20, 20-h years ago when many of us listening were young moms, and it kind of came on the scene because, honestly, when I say we've been duped, I mean purposefully, the, um, the alcohol industry, literally, um, recognized who is not drinking enough. We've already got the, the men, we've got them on their beer and you know bourbon and whiskey thing that they're already going um. You've got certain segments of society that are drinking, but who's really not drinking enough? Where's the demographic? We need to really turn it on moms, women, women, um, working at, in their home, out of their home, women in general, but, but especially moms. And that's when you started to really see, and I think that was very different than when I was a teenager or in my young 20s. My mom didn't drink in a mommy wine, juice culture. She didn't take a Yeti to the park and nor did we as, or I didn't, I didn't either.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:20:36

I, just I was not into that, and I, as a young mom, whereas now, I think young moms, quite honestly, are wise, they're wisening up, they're watching a lot of us in this middle age bracket. They've watched us and they've also watched us not have the success that we wanted with our wine o'clock habit. They can see, and so, actually for the first time in history, we, our demographic I say we, I'm 53, this kind of middle age zone which is your audience for the first time in history, we are drinking more as we age, not less. And we are now the demographic that is having the most struggle and the most problem with alcohol. It's not the young people, it's not our sons and daughters, it's us. And that's why, again, I'm so passionate to bring this conversation to the forefront and why I'm so thankful for the opportunity, because we're the demographic that's kind of slowly fading in the background with this habit at home a lot of it is at home. It's kind of like not bothering anybody, don't want to get anybody's way. It's that taking our shine away, like you mentioned at the beginning, and dulling our spark, dumbing us down, saying we don't really have anything left to offer. We're kind of done. No, sandy and I, combined, are here to say no, you're not done. Uh, you can just get started.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:22:07

I started, sober sis, when I was 47 and jumped into the realm of social media and business and creating what again? What I wish I would have found. But I didn't know what it would entail. And so I'm just, you know, so thankful in my now mid-50s to have such passion and purpose that I would not have had access to had I become a professional patio drinker in these empty nester years, which was exactly the direction I was heading, you know, just to kind of get dressed up and go with my husband to networking events. You know, play my pickleball and just kind of. You know, wine, wine and dine, um, or keep working and just hustle and hustle and then find myself at the bottom of a bottle on the weekends or after a long day killing it at work.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:22:58

There's just more. There's just more, and I think a lot of your audience are probably, you know, grandmas are going to be, and I work with a lot of women in their late 50s, 60s, 70s, and even have a handful of sober-minded sisters in our community that are in their 80s. My old, my matriarch, sober sis, is 84, and she just recently, in the last six months, did my 21-Day Reset Challenge and it's changed her life at 84. So I mean, I'm here at 53 to say it's never too early and it's never too late to change your relationship with drinking, because there's so much more on the other side. You really don't have a drinking problem as much as you have a thinking problem.

Sandy Kruse: 1:23:44

I love that. Oh my God. Everything that you talk about I love. I've done some cognitive behavioral therapy courses because nutritionists there's a lot of correlation between what you're talking about and food addictions as well, you know, with the whole emotion side. But the key is this, and I think you are doing incredible things you are. What you're doing is you're helping all of these women just to wake up and let the way that you age be your choice. Let it be your choice If you want to retire and go enjoy life on a beach in Croatia, which is what I'd love someday. I'm just kidding. I actually have no plans to retire, I don't. I'm just going to keep going until I'm not going anymore. But I'm just saying everybody knows right.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:24:44

You may be called to a whole, second, third act in your life in something that may have been lying dormant. Or in my case, I think and again I'm just coming from my own faith perspective here I think that God all along had been almost like predestined me. I mean, I really believe that we are all given a special purpose when we come to this world. I think that that's already inside us and I look back now at my life at this point and I can already begin to see the skill set, the experience, the heartache, the mess to get to this point, to have this message. It all came together, the highs, the lows, the good, the bad, the pretty, the ugly, all of it. I need it all to do what I'm doing now and I just think that's so gracious because in my view and again as a Christian, I was oftentimes and I know some of your listeners this may resonate there were oftentimes I was literally praying to God to take this away, like take this away, take this mental tug of war away, take this divided life away, the conviction I felt of being kind of hypocritical with my kids, kind of like do as I say, not as I do, unless I can hide what I'm doing and then you can think that I'm not loving this feeling that I'm getting when I'm numbing out a little bit around you. And again, this isn't on them, it was me. I had to really reconcile that and I kept saying God, take it away, take it away. While I was like holding on to the wine stem as tight as I could, take it away, and I'm so glad in his mercy and in his grace that he didn't quote just take it away.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:26:37

I, I have a relationship with God. I don't look at it like religion. I personally see it more as a relationship, and in a relationship you don't do that, you just walk up and take things away. You partner. And that's what I really experienced on a spiritual level, because I really do come at this from a holistic point of view mind, body and spirit. So from a spiritual level or point of view, I was like, ok, god, instead of me trying to perform white, knuckle it and do all these things that are not working for me, what if I just met it with again the curiosity, the willingness and almost like a surrender? Just met it with again the curiosity, the willingness and almost like a surrender, like I'm just going to surrender this and I'm going to let go and partner with you. So I'm going to still do my part. I'm not going to just sit back and ask for some you know genie in a bottle or some magic wand to come. I'm going to need to do the work.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:27:27

You know, we hear that all the time you got to do the work. What's the work? Well, the work is ongoing, people, because we're still doing the work over here. But the work was being able to be honest with myself. The work was being honest with other people. The work was learning instead of just trying to quit. The work is the journey, and that's where the partnership for me changed everything, because it was just filled with kindness, grace and patience, because, again, I think there was this other purpose that he had for me. But I had to go through, had to go through the fire, to come out on the other side, to be so passionate almost eight years later, to keep talking about it every day.

Sandy Kruse: 1:28:11

Yes, ma'am, it's called the hero's journey. Hero's journey. Been there, done that. That's why I'm doing what I do right now.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:28:20

Yes, we want that for other people, yes, and a hero in their journey too.

Sandy Kruse: 1:28:26

Yeah, so this has been an amazing conversation. I love you, jen, like honestly, you're just so real and so down to earth and I would love for you to tell my guests and I will have everything in the show notes as well, all the links. But let us know where we can find you and follow you, especially for those of you who are just curious. Just curious, check out Jen, just see, because you can see how Jen speaks it's not with judgment, it's not with harshness, or anyway, just let us know where can we start off? Yeah for sure.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:29:03

Well, I've got a website. You go to SoberSiscom. I've got most everything there, but I'm really most active when it comes to social media anyway, on Instagram, just at Sober Cis one word, sober Cis and of course, facebook too. But at the beginning of every month, as I mentioned, I do run a 21 day reset challenge so women can sign up for that at any time during the month and if you're kind of past the first part of the month and you go to the next month, but I have what's called a runway, so I have all kinds of resources and ways to help women anytime. Anytime you're ready to get started. But if that seems even like a little much, I do have a free guide. I have a free guide for one o'clock tonight. If you're like, okay, let me just try some of your strategies and see if they work, and so yeah, sandy can put all that below in the show notes.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:29:56

But maybe, just starting with my free guide and looking at you know an upcoming event or you know a wedding or a holiday party and going, you know, I'm just going to try to not drink tonight, let me.

Jenn Kautsch: 1:30:07

Let me try some tools and see if they work. And then, if you really want community because I believe, as as one of my coaches says, community is immunity. When you've got community, you can become more immune to the pressures and the temptations and the loneliness and the pressure of just social drinking during such a busy time. And really, you know, with Try January coming up there, drinking during such a busy time, and really, you know, with dry January coming up there, there's a time where the world tends to collectively hit the pause button and hit the reset button. So if you're even considering it, it's a great time because a lot of people around you are doing it too. Now I can take you further than just a dry January, and that's what's great about what we're doing is we're building ongoing community and support after the 21 days. That's a great place to start.

Sandy Kruse: 1:30:56

That's perfect. Thank you so much for all your time today and your wisdom, Jen Loved it Love getting to know you better too.

Sandy Kruse: 1:31:05

Me too. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to share it with someone you know might benefit, and always remember when you rate, review, subscribe, you help to support my content and help me to keep going and bringing these conversations to you each and every week. These conversations to you each and every week. Join me next week for a new topic, new guest, new exciting conversations to help you live your best life.