Finding Your Health Truth: Navigating Wellness Trends with Dr. Mark Sherwood - Episode 273

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Dr. Mark Sherwood shares his journey from law enforcement to naturopathic medicine, exploring how personalized wellness approaches yield better results than one-size-fits-all health trends. Together we examine popular wellness practices, distinguishing between beneficial protocols and potentially harmful fads while emphasizing the importance of balance over extremes.

• Dr. Mark's career transition from 20-year police veteran to naturopathic doctor after discovering the surprisingly short lifespan of law enforcement personnel
• Why intermittent fasting affects women differently than men, particularly during perimenopause when hormonal changes already stress the body
• How GLP-1 medications (Ozempic, Wegovy) can be beneficial when used properly as "training wheels" rather than quick weight loss solutions
• The danger of focusing on weight loss rather than body composition, leading to muscle wasting and nutritional deficiencies
• Why vegan diets often lack essential nutrients like omega-3, complete proteins, iron and B12 despite being promoted as optimal
• The importance of "rhythm not robotic" living - finding non-negotiable health practices that still allow flexibility
• How genetic factors determine whether practices like cold plunges are beneficial or harmful for specific individuals
• Cautions about psychedelics and other brain-altering substances despite potential therapeutic applications
• The value of writing practice with the prompt: "What does my soul want me to know today?"

Be sure to follow Sandy K Nutrition, rate it, review it and share it. Always remember my friends, balanced living works.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Sandy K Nutrition
• 1:30 Meet Dr. Mark Sherwood
• 4:31 From Police Officer to Naturopathic Doctor
• 9:35 Truth About Intermittent Fasting
• 17:35 GLP-1 Drugs: Benefits and Dangers
• 28:01 Vegan Diets: Balance vs. Extremes
• 38:58 Finding Rhythm Not Robotic Routines
• 45:11 Biohacking Trends and Cold Plunge Reality
• 58:11 Psychedelics: Proceed with Caution
• 1:03:30 Closing Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript

Sandy Kruse: 0:02

Hi everyone, it's me, Sandy Kruse of Sandy K Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen. For years now, I've been bringing to you conversations about wellness from incredible guests from all over the world. Discover a fresh take on healthy living for midlife and beyond, one that embraces balance and reason without letting only science dictate every aspect of our wellness, and my guests as we explore ways that we can age gracefully, with in-depth conversations about the thyroid, about hormones and other alternative wellness options for you and your family. True Wellness nurtures a healthy body, mind, spirit and soul, and we cover all of these essential aspects to help you live a balanced, joyful life. Be sure to follow my show, rate it, review it and share it. Always remember my friends balanced living works. Friends, balanced living works.

Sandy Kruse: 1:30

Hi everyone, welcome to Sandy K Nutrition, health and Lifestyle Queen. Today with me I have Mark Sherwood. He is a naturopathic doctor and he and his wife they tag team often on social media. His wife's name is Michelle L Neal Sherwood. She is a doctor of osteopathy, and they have a full-time wellness-based medical practice in Tulsa, oklahoma, called the Functional Medical Institute, where they adopt a whole person approach which is outcome-based, looking at each individual's unique needs. Their goal is to lead people down a pathway of true healing. To that end, there are two purposes. One is to eradicate all self-imposed, choice-driven disease conditions and is to eliminate the usage of unnecessary medications. Through their unique clinic various diagnostic tests, they are used to heal and prevent common disease patterns. The couple has co-authored four Amazon number one best-selling books. Couple has co-authored four Amazon number one best-selling books and they have been seen on national TV, been quoted on CNN, featured on CBN and are regular contributors to many national publications. Doctors Mark and Michelle appear twice weekly on many TV networks and with their show called Furthermore.

Sandy Kruse: 3:09

Now today, dr Mark and myself are going to talk about some health trends. This is going to be a fun conversation because one of the things that I've noticed in this space is we will almost and I was talking about this today, mark we'll almost put this health guru up on a pedestal and we'll be like oh my God. Well, he says we must do this, and then everybody does it and they're like but wait a second, my health has gotten worse or my health has changed, and so we're going to talk about. What are these health trends? Is it myth? Is it true? Or maybe it's simply out of balance, or maybe it's just not for you. So it's going to be a great conversation and with that, welcome, dr Mark. Thank you so much for coming.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 4:07

Oh, sandy, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this and I appreciate all you do and this is going to be a great conversation, so I'm really honored to be here.

Sandy Kruse: 4:15

Thank you. So we have to always start with your story, because you and I talked a little bit beforehand and I know you know you and I kind of had this inspiration. Both of us did a little bit later in life. So tell us what your story is.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 4:31

Yeah, everybody's got a story, don't they? My life has been characterized by wearing a lot of different hats. I go back to just after college. I played professional baseball in the country of Australia. Just after college, I played professional baseball in the country of Australia and then after that I moved back to the States and actually joined a police department Tulsa, oklahoma where I served for over 20 years, 10 years of which on the SWAT team, and during that time I got involved in some physique training, bodybuilding, and just tried to keep myself fit for that job.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 5:09

And towards the end of my career I was put in charge of developing the department's wellness program, which didn't exist at the time. So I had to learn from the ground up what all that meant. So I traveled around and started studying and I realized that the law enforcement personnel didn't live very long. Actually, the age of death was averaging for the 20-year veteran at 66 years of age, and that shocked me because I found that that trend hadn't changed for 50 years. So I kind of went on a mission at that point to figure out the whys behind that.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 5:41

And, sandy, I just started studying.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 5:42

You know, kind of like the movie Forrest Gump who kept running, I kept studying, I just didn't stop and I started the wellness program and got into my latter years in the department and I thought you know I'm into protection and service, why can't I go into naturopathy and why can't I protect and serve on a larger scale?

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 6:07

And despite all the criticism from my peers and the naysayers that says you can't do it, you're too old, I decided to keep studying in school and further my education to become a naturopathic doctor and so now I get the pleasure of working with my wife every day. You know she's my best friend. I call her not just my spare rib but my prime rib and people kind of like that a lot. And so Michelle and I work together, the Functional Medical Institute, and we get the opportunity to serve people really around the globe. I think last count we've been able to work with 25,000 plus people and you know and the books and we've made several movies and it's just been a real blessing to be able to help people and sort of get the message that we're both trying to get out there more on a public scale.

Sandy Kruse: 6:53

I love that. I love it because, first of all, it's very inspirational, because it's leading with passion, and that's one of the things that I am a big believer in when you have passion behind what you do, you're really always going to be of service, let's just say, and I love that. And I went back to school late too, and I actually thought about going back to become a naturopathic doctor, but I was older than you, you were 40, right.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 7:31

Yes.

Sandy Kruse: 7:32

So I went back to college when I was 46 and it took me three years to do a college diploma. That's a two-year diploma. I had kids that I was like driving all over the place and you know I was a busy mom. So, going back to school and I had the same thing as you where some people were like what are you crazy? Like why are you going back to school at 46? You're almost 50. Like what are you doing, girl? But you know, it was like I just had to, I had to have that foundation. It was like I just had to have that foundation and, as you know, the learning never ends in this industry.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 8:11

No, the learning is just going. I mean, my wife and I are still studying. It's like I'm not done, I'm just beginning, and the more I know, the more I realize I don't know. And the wonder of the human body, the it works, the way it operates it's, it's in its intersection with society. You know the world, the environment, etc. You know all these epigenetic, um, interactive genetic expressions just blow my mind every day and I'm always trying to figure out the whys behind stuff. So so I mean, probably the why or why not has been a question that's driven me for the last 25 years.

Sandy Kruse: 8:47

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. So today we decided we both kind of agreed on the topic of just kind of breaking down what these health trends are and whether it's even applicable to you. Because the one thing I have noticed and I think you're going to find this super, super interesting is I'm not going to name names, but there is a very, very large health guru that men and women alike follow, and I bought one of his books. I thought, okay, I'm going to do this.

Sandy Kruse: 9:22

And then I started to do intermittent fasting and it was all good until it coincided with the same time that I was intermittent fasting. So how crazy is that? It now so? This was when I was 52. I'm now 55. The way that I look at it is that it was probably causing my body a lot of stress, a lot of issues, and I wasn't flowing with it. So intermittent fasting, as we know, is a massive trend and everyone's like oh yeah, you got it, it's good for everybody. Blanket, intermittent fast, it'll solve all your problems. I would love to hear your thoughts on intermittent fasting.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 10:30

Well, principally speaking, intermittent fasting does hold some weight, because we know the body really can't heal, it cannot regenerate, rebuild, recover, recycle unless it's in a fasted state fasted, rested state, rest being the key point. So when the body, a female's body, gets into the perimenopausal time, which specifically late perimenopause, when you have this still production of estradiol, that's cranking out pretty good. But you get this lack of production of progesterone and testosterone at that point, which can impair sleep, which would create more cortisol or more stress. And then you throw on top of that, at that time in history of your life, intermittent fasting, which also creates stress because you're going without food, right? That's kind of a double whammy in that situation. So I do think that it's beneficial as it is mixed into the person's life in a personalized way.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 11:31

You know, I think everybody should be doing it to some degree, but it should be more personalized and generalized. And that's a problem with some of these trends, you know, they're kind of marketed, as do this. One thing and all things are fixed. But that's not how the body works, because every individual is responding differently to everything around them. Everybody's got different family things going on, different ages, different times of life, whether perimenopause or andropause, and you got the work stresses, the home stresses, the job stresses the whole bit, and so all that needs to be factored in there. So as much as I like and do intermittent fasting, I certainly can understand why in your situation at that particular time, it was probably not just such a good idea.

Sandy Kruse: 12:19

Yeah, and you know, I think, just to pick out something that you said there, it's all in the like how are you doing it? So I was doing the whole 16-8. So 16 hours of no food, eight hour window of eating, and so, when you like, when you read some of it or you see a 30 second podcast clip, right, and that's like it seems to be like our brains can only absorb that these days. It's like I will say, people listen to the entire podcast. Please don't make life choices based on a 30-second clip.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 13:00

I'll second that motion. Please listen to the whole story, not just a sentence of the story.

Sandy Kruse: 13:05

Yeah. So you know, and often we will pick out one thing that we think, oh, this has got to be it. So I still do a 12-hour fast and I completely align with you and I know that this isn't about aligning. Completely align with you and I know that this isn't about aligning, but I do align in that you know, if you give yourself a break, if you're eating right up until the point that you go to bed, well, you're not giving your body enough time to. You know, do all the things to repair and to support a good sleep, because I don't sleep well. If I'm eating at 930 at night, I don't sleep well. So I guess it's balance. And what about the difference between men and women? Because isn't it true that intermittent fasting typically works better for men?

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 14:00

Yeah, it can. And I think a generally true statement is men have more muscle tissue present than ladies, which does have a trend towards having a higher metabolic rate, which is understandable. That's probably the difference. There's a couple of things that probably would be principal in a way that I think benefit everybody all the time is one's not eating late, you know. I think you, if you can give yourself a two to three hour window at minimum before you lie down post last meal, you're going to have a better, deeper sleep and you're going to get better digestion. You're not going to have this lack of rest and digest going on. So it's, things are going to work better for you in that anyway.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 14:46

And then I've always been one to look at the genetic part of this too, because there's a little enzyme that's called TCF7-like-2 or transcription-like factor-like-2 or like 7-like-2. And it's one that sort of creates this. Well, everybody's heard of the GLPs today, the GLP-1. It creates that glucagon-like peptide based upon the fullness of the gut. Well, some people create more of that or less of that, and to know that ahead of time gives you insight as to whether a person can or should be doing more elongated fast or shorter fast, and then putting that in the place of where they are in life as well, or male or female as well.

Sandy Kruse: 15:34

Oh, that's great advice. What is that gene called? Again, I'm writing that down.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 15:38

Yeah, it's called TCF7-like-2. Transcription factor 7-like-2. Tcf-7-l2.

Sandy Kruse: 15:50

Ah, okay, I'm going to check that.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 15:53

So check that out, if it can be upregulated and it can be downregulated, because those are the enzymes that are created by our genetic patterns, right? So some people create more GLP-1 in a quicker manner and some are delayed. There's another one you can look at called MC4R MC4R melanocortin-4 receptor.

Sandy Kruse: 16:14

Okay, I'm going to check that out and since we're on this topic, I'm just going to throw this out there. Okay, Okay, this I've seen everywhere, Mark, is that if you take Ackermansia, that it's going to act like a GLP-1 in your body and help you lose weight. I want to hear your and maybe, maybe I think most people know what GLP-1s we're talking about Ozempic, we're talking about Wegovi, whatever the brand is, but do you know a lot about this? Because I've seen a lot of people say this and I actually went on a protocol taking acromantia and I didn't test my gut first because I know you're supposed to, but I didn't because it's expensive. So I didn't test my gut first because I know you're supposed to, but I didn't, yeah, Because it's expensive, so I didn't do it. However, I saw nothing.

Sandy Kruse: 17:15

So I would love for you to weigh in on this, because there are a lot of things claiming that they are acting like GLP-1s and this is a great, great topic, even though I'm just throwing this at you.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 17:29

Well, it is because, you know, the bottom line is the sum of the GLP-1s. And we've used it quite honestly. We've used a compounded version of semaglutide, very high milligram per milliliter. We use it in certain very controlled windows and we can talk about that which kind of can promote more longevity. Pretty cool little experiment we've been doing.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 17:54

But with acromantia, it's one of the commensal or keystone bacterias in the gut. We do a ton of stool testing. So generally we all have about nine or 10 between intra-individuals of these bacterial species, nine or 10 between intra-individuals of these bacterial species, and acromancy is one of them that most humans have a good amount of. So we see it in the gut as normal. But to say that when you take it it will do the same as a GLP-1, in my opinion, would be completely, patently false, because it's not the same.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 18:29

And in my opinion, when you get into the marketing scheme of these things, it's about sales, isn't it?

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 18:33

So if they know that GLP-1 products have had big sales which they have and they know that there's been some level of success which undoubtedly they have along with some failures, then people are going to try to find alternatives to that, using that as their hook to get the attention and then create the cells of this. So it's almost as like saying that you know, if you take this pill, this one capsule of acromantia, you will lose weight, which is, frankly, that's ridiculous, because humanity is different, man. I mean to generalize things, which is where medicine went wrong. It generalized things with everyone and when you generalize things with everyone, you take away the personalization of it and, frankly, within even the natural side of things, I have to deal with this stuff all the time because everybody is trying to sell something in the space these days. And then the nutraceutical field, supplement field you're talking tens of billions of dollars that are going through that thing. So my opinion would be strongly that just taking acromantia, although you might need to take it, would not always create a GLP-1 increase.

Sandy Kruse: 19:51

Okay, yeah, my experience was I don't know, I just took it. Yeah, and that's the truth. But since we're talking about GLP-1s and you mentioned longevity, glp-1s semaglutide is massive. It is a massive trend. I have heard everything from microdosing for inflammation. I have heard how you know if you're on it for too long, you could do some serious or have serious issues with your gut. I have heard that there is muscle wasting. I've heard it all. So that's a great thing to talk about, since you have a lot of experience at your clinic, so let's talk about it.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 20:45

Well, certainly, you know, to kind of get people's minds going in the right direction to be able to properly digest this I'm using that as a play on words there, I suppose Right, but you know the stomach is the size of a fist. So if people are listening right now or not watching, hold up your two fists together. That's the size of the heart two fists and you take one fist away, that's the size of the stomach. So if the stomach is the size of a human fist, I think we can all agree that's not very big, right? So the purpose of the GLP-1, glucagon-like peptide one is what that stands for is when that stomach gets full of a substance, in this case food, and it starts going downwards into the small intestine, eventually there's a signal that's sent back to the brain, this GLP-1, that says hi, we are full down here and you need to turn down the appetite because we have no more room, and that's basically how that works. So people today are taking these GLP-1 agonists, which are instigators to drive up the signal in a faster manner. Now we should understand that it probably takes 20 minutes or so. In a normal person, you know, besides those TCF7L2 people it takes about 20 minutes for the signal to go northwards to the brain. But we eat in a hurry all the time. That's the styles that we eat. We're always stressed and hurried. So you can put a lot of food in that stomach capacity in 20 minutes. You could probably go through two or three plates if you wanted to. And the stomach is made of smooth muscle cells so it will stretch and expand and I've said this before. It can be the size of a fist, but it can expand the size of a volleyball. It really can. And so we've all had that experience at some point in our lives, most likely where we've said to someone, or even ourselves gee, I think I ate too much because we did that Right.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 22:39

So on comes and in comes the scene of these semaglutide GLP-1 agonists and people start using them, and certainly we know that people are eating too fast. Today, we know they're eating too much and these actually did for a while give people a sense of having lost weight. However and this is a big however with these one should not target weight loss, and I know that might be a shock statement, because losing weight is not a good goal. Changing body composition should be the goal we don't in our clinic and our patients around the world. We don't even want them to really use the weight scale weight as a measure of success or not. I'd rather know the percentage of body fat how much fat do you have in your frame and how much muscle do you have? And so we like to get the ladies somewhere between like 18 and about 26% body fat and we like to get the men somewhere between about 10 and 18% body fat.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 23:42

So we have used the GLP-1s in a very controlled environment as follows I want to make sure people understand that they don't live on calories per se. They live on nutrients. So I want them to put nutrients in that fist-sized stomachs. So we're going to work on high nutritional foods regardless of the calories. So we're going to work on high nutrient foods regardless of the calories, and we're not going to think about calories. We're not going to think about weight loss. We're going to think about learning to use the semaglutide to hear the voice of full appropriately. So I look at it like training wheels on a bike. You know riding your bicycle along as a little kid with a training wheel so you won't fall over. That's how we view semaglutide and we want to train them along the way, with a lot of control, to hear that voice, so that they're not dependent upon something to help them, but they learn to do it theirself over time. So we have used that a lot in that manner.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 24:37

The wrong way to use it, in my opinion and you brought this up because this is very common is to lose weight.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 24:44

And people put so much emphasis on that.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 24:46

They don't talk about nutrition.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 24:49

They're still stuck on calories, they're taking in foods that were high calorie, low nutrients, and they've dropped it to low calorie, low nutrients, so the body is lacking. So in that context, the semaglutides and Wagobe's, majaro's, ozempic's of the world those would be a negative because you're actually creating malnutrition in your life and we see people lose muscle, lose hair, get this really almost a starvation. Look in their face, it looks horrible and they lose bone and it's hard to get that back, so it can become a very deleterious situation. So we are really adamant about using that one directionally and we won't support the other side a lot. So we've used it a lot, even to. On a side note on the intermittent fasting concept, we know we need to do that occasionally, but when we get the system working in a way that we understand it. We've used it in little micro dosings, maybe once a month, to promote maybe a once a month more elongated fast, to say 24 hours or 48 hours, which makes it easier. So you can actually use that to promote a context of longevity.

Sandy Kruse: 26:01

So I'm going to guess that you, as a doctor, will really make sure that your patient has the resiliency to be able to handle all of that first, because here's the thing I once, mark, I once did. And going back to the fasting, I once did I think it was a two-day water fast, it was that, and all I did was drink bone broth and water and I really got sick, like it wasn't hard, yeah, and and so it kind of goes to that whole point of, oh, I read, this is good and you know, whatever I'm going to try it, but was it really good for me at that time? And I guess it's the same thing with what you're saying with you know, something like a GLP-1. Like there are situations that people would be really a lot better off if they put off, they got off some of the fat on their body 100%. You know, like you know, that's just the way I look at it and you know the whole thing that you talk about Ozempic.

Sandy Kruse: 27:22

They call it Ozempic face. You know, you see, every single real housewife that has the Osepho face of where they can have influence, they're not really doing a lot of justice to other women because it's like this is becoming the norm to have this skinny body, this you know, frail looking body and the skinny face. So I look at it from, listen. It's not their responsibility to. For me, I'm an adult, meaning I can make my own decisions. But at the same time, when all you see is that, then it's like, well, what's right? Anymore we don't even know who's real. Anymore, we don't even know who's real anymore.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 28:27

The whole world is becoming more of this fake prototype that becomes these Internet influencers or whatever worldwide influencers, and it's very sad to me, sandy, because, as you mentioned, that has become a trend and it's not a good trend. I mean, we know that the fatness and I'm using that word not to be inflammatory but be descriptive there is an increase of fatness across the world, especially in North America, and it's not okay. I mean, we are in the worst health condition in North America than we've ever been in the history of mankind's existence right now, and so we know that what we're doing is not working. We know that we need to do something different to bring about change, and I look at the invention of some of these GLP-1s as probably could be good, but contextually they're not being used for good under the very thing that you talked about, and I frankly see more people using them incorrectly than I do see them using them correctly. And you mentioned conditions, like you know, the paralysis of your GI system that can happen.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 29:37

There's a lot of issues with loss of things, as I mentioned, muscle specifically, and frailty increases. You know those are not good things. You talk about people that are not menopause yet I've seen it where their hormone cascade has been all messed up because they've created so much stress, and that's not a good thing either. So there's a lot of negatives to this and we've spent a lot of time over the last you know probably two years really. Every person we deal with that asked that question. We're going to highly educate them to stay on it. You know and stay with that, and we use it under that very tight controlled. You know rules and regulations if you will process and we've seen great success with it under that. But I've also seen and heard a lot of horror stories on the other side of the thing.

Sandy Kruse: 30:26

So let's move on, because this is a good segue to move on to a few other myths which you know. I grew up. I'm Eastern European, croatian descent and my parents were very old school farmers. Parents were very old school farmers. So my dad is going to turn 88 this month and my mom 79 this year, and they still live in their own home and they still, you know, but they grew up like Mark, we're talking old school farming. They lived off the land.

Sandy Kruse: 31:04

So, you know, when you're younger, you you kind of ignore it all and then, as you get older, I'm like mom, tell me more. Like tell me more about this. And you know, now we see all these things about how you know, vegan diets are the healthiest diets and there's a lot of argument back and forth, and so for me personally, I always go back to how they lived. I'm like, listen, if they survived this long and they didn't live on a lot. They were very poor farmers and they ate meat. They didn't stuff their face with meat all the time, but they ate meat and they ate protein and they ate dairy and they you know it was raw dairy Like they kind of ate everything. So I would love for you to. You know I've read books. I've read Sacred Cow. Have you read that one?

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 32:03

I have yes.

Sandy Kruse: 32:05

So you know, I would love to hear your thoughts on this whole vegan diet movement.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 32:13

Well, there's a lot to that. I'll just one little caveat with the dairy. You know there's as much genetics as I do. You know there's some people very small percentage that don't tolerate or break down the lactose sugar in dairy and they don't have a lactase enzyme presence. So we need to know that there's some level of allergenic sensitive reaction to that in a subpopulation.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 32:39

But with that said, you go back to the way we used to live and they ate natural. It was off the land, it was the way things were produced, it's the way nature got intended right and it was just like that. And so you know the cows ate grass, they walked around, they got rained on and bug bit and they weren't raising little pens, they weren't given massive amounts of steroids and antibiotics and the farmers grew their own crops on their own ground and they didn't spray the crops with Roundup containing glyphosate and atrazine. So it was a whole different world. And you look back at the health trends of those times, you know you did not see the amount of cancers which I know is rising rapidly in the nation of Canada right now. You didn't see that obesity trend. You didn't see type 2 diabetes. You didn't see that at all, and people today want to come up with some kind of angle on a diet. You know well, don't eat meat, or do eat meat or eat just vegetables. Stay away from meat.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 33:38

And I look at it from probably a different angle. I want people to eat natural the way that they want to, as long as it's naturally produced, and so we kind of cut them a break on that. Somebody wants to eat plants great, but I don't want them eating so much plants. Specifically, and I'll give a couple of examples of this the grains that we have produced in America, probably North America, have got a lot of problems. A lot of times we eat so much of that stuff, it will drive blood sugar. The soy has a lot of problems, genetically altered. We eat too much of that. It will drive blood sugar and also drives estrogen production as well.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 34:23

So there's a lot of problems with what we have, with the vegan situation, and we need proteins. I do not see that we're getting adequate protein in singularly and only a vegan diet. I can't see that because we want to hold as much muscle tissue as we can as late in life as we can, so that we can generate movement, because movement, Sandy, is life. Lack of movement is rigor mortis. So we want to maintain the muscles.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 34:48

So we do need a good balance of the macronutrients of proteins, carbohydrates and fats. But I like to put those macronutrients in these categories natural, in their original packaging, in their original form proteins, carbohydrates and fats and I believe if we do that as a general rule, we get health out of it, Because if it was good for grandmother and grandfather, it's probably good for us too. And clearly we can't ignore that the body needs the phytonutrients from plants and we cannot ignore that the body needs some of the nutrients, the amino acids, from the proteins. So we need it all and I think there's got to be a balance there somewhere. And as much as I appreciate people not wanting to eat meat for just conscience or religious reasons fine, but I've not seen a vegan yet that has been efficient in omega-3 fatty acids. I'm not seeing them be efficient in total protein and I'm not seeing them being efficient typically in things like iron and B12 as a general rule.

Sandy Kruse: 35:59

Me neither.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 36:01

And so you know, I look at that whole diet thing and everybody's got it's like almost like people want to have a different angle to come up with the diet that does everything, and I just don't think that's possible because we're all. We're all. It's all unique. I know we hit that a couple of times, but some people operate better, you know, within their, their window of life, you know they just they have access to a lot of plants and they can do that. Some people don, but we need it all.

Sandy Kruse: 36:30

I really believe that yeah, I, I, I agree with that, because there was a time this was back when I was uh recuperating from having my thyroid uh removed and I found I like I was trying everything, mark, like I was, because I'm that person that can chug what tastes absolutely horrible if I know it's going to support my health. Right, like I'm that person. So I tried all these different diets because I'm like, oh my God, like what's wrong with me? Why do I feel this way? Why am I not able to keep the weight? Like I'm a small woman, I'm only 5'2", and my whole life I was tiny. And then, after I had my thyroid removed, they're like, oh, yeah you'll be fine.

Sandy Kruse: 37:22

Just take this one pill. And it happened to be T4 only, of course.

Sandy Kruse: 37:26

There you go oh yeah, and so I started to have a lot of problems. So I tried different things and you know I had other issues in my 40s. But you know, when it was out of balance and this is the biggest thing as soon as it became out of balance I had something go wrong. Whether it was I was borderline anemic or, you know, like something in my body would be off. And I've literally tried every diet. I even did raw food for a while, mark, I know right, I did not go fully vegetarian, but almost, and that was when I became almost anemic. And then I did keto. And then I had other issues with keto. It was great at the start, and then I had other issues and then I'm like I just need to eat balanced.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 38:29

That's the key, right there, you know, and that's life, isn't it? You know you got to find balance like spiritually, intellectually, emotionally and physically, life is not one leg of a stool, it is four legs of a stool. All those areas I talked about, and finding balance is for me, is finding balance with sleep, with movement, with food, with stress management. It's all of those things, and every day I'm going to do something with the intentionality of benefiting those areas in my life. You know, on a daily basis and you're right, if you get imbalanced in diet or anything else, and you're right, if you get imbalanced in diet or anything else, it puts too much weight on something that's not another system or area of your life that's not supposed to hold that much. And so I think we live in a world where there's a lot of extreme pushed on all sides. We probably need to get out of the extremes and get into more of the harmonious action, or maybe just take a step back to try to build more foundational balance, things going on and move up from there.

Sandy Kruse: 39:40

I think you said it right there the key is this intention. So every day I listen. I have two young adult children and you know, when people say they have toddlers and they're stressed, just you wait, just you wait. I'm like, okay, so maybe you don't have a lot of independence, but wait, because then when they're older, they have adult problems. So it's different. So, you know, I'm like my life changes constantly, mark, and so I kind of roll with it. I'm like, okay, you know what I'm dealing with? A lot of stress. Right now I'm going to focus on doing something. I have tools in my toolbox because for me it's really important that I sleep well. Well, if I'm stressed, well, you know, maybe I'm not sleeping that well, so maybe on that day I'm going to make sure I take a nice long, intentional walk with my dog in the forest, maybe I'm going to do a little meditation session to calm my nervous system. So I think we got to get out of this whole robotics way of living, right.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 40:51

We do and I guess it's good and I have got routines that I do. But the routines that I do in the morning are setting me up so that I can be balanced the rest of the day. And so there's things in my life that are non-negotiable. If I don't, I'm not the best husband, friend, mentor, teacher, physician, et cetera. So you know, I will exercise daily, I'll do something, you know, whether it's some kind of resistance training or some type of aerobic training. I will do some meditation or prayer because I got to get quiet. I want my mind and my heart to quiet down. I will breathe, I'll work on that. I'll get plenty of water and be hydrated.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 41:37

I always remind myself that stress is not a noun but it's a verb. It's something that I do in response to something I perceive or think I perceive. So I kind of put that back in my control and don't let that control me. Then I make sure that I get my sleep, and I'm always tracking the sleep, you know. And what can I do with that? And in between, that is life right. And so I want to do a good job at life. And if I don't put intentionality on those things that are non-negotiable things. You know I'm doing a disservice, and even with my wife, I mean, we have a date night every Friday night. That's non-negotiable and I'm not going to miss that because we need that. So it's like finding out you know what the rhythm is there and then getting into the rhythm of it Not robotic, but rhythm. It's got a flow to it and that gives life perhaps greater meaning and purpose.

Sandy Kruse: 42:32

I like that Rhythm, not robotic.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 42:35

Yes.

Sandy Kruse: 42:36

Because I agree with you. I have certain practices. I usually write every morning because it grounds me and I usually wake up very, very early.

Sandy Kruse: 42:48

So I feel like writing helps with just kind of setting the pace, and you want to know what I do when I because a lot of people were like, well, what am I going to write about? Like, what for? And I'm like you don't have to be a writer to write, and I actually have when I don't know what to write, often I'll wake up and whether it's like stress from something that's going on or whatever, and I'll I'll put it down on paper and leave it there, and if I'm not sure what to write, I will write one blanket line what does my soul want me to know today? Do you like that?

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 43:27

I do. I like that a lot.

Sandy Kruse: 43:29

Because people will say well, what do I write? And you can buy all these different journals that are really expensive. I buy a pack from Costco of just plain line journals, I'm like, and then if I don't know what to write, I'll write that one line. You don't need journal prompts, because if you write what does my soul want me to know today, I bet you're going to write something down.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 43:52

Yeah, I like that a lot. The essence of who you are is speaking to you all the time, isn't it? You know, if we just listen, you know to what we all have. I've kind of described this to people, sandy. With this, I mean, we've all been places as kids where, like you know, a little voice inside you, I need to get out of here. Right now, this is not a good place, right. And then you've all had the same opposite of this. A little voice inside you says you know, this is good, I'm at peace. We listen to that voice inside of us and it can guide you, it can direct you, it can give you sheer wisdom and I like what you put, because our bodies are going to be talking to us and communicating with us. This whole idea of life is, you know, body, mind and spirit. You know it's all of those things combined and you can't separate them. If you do, you're going to find misery there.

Sandy Kruse: 44:44

Yeah, I'm with you. So let's get into a couple more things, because I think we've got a lot of great topics here. Okay, I'm going to start by saying I used to be like oh yeah, I'm a biohacker and I'm not insulting anybody who still calls themselves that, but what happened to me in the last year is I've resonated less with that term because I've seen a lot of things that like, just didn't, it's almost like that robotic thing that I was saying and I'm like, okay, I'm just going to back off from that and I actually removed that from my podcast description and everything, because I felt like it was a very, you know, masculine energy like biohacking, and nothing against masculine energy. I feel like every single person has both and that's balance right.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 46:08

Right, but biohacking has become massive. I would love to hear your thoughts on it because I know you're kind of in the same world as me. Encompasses what a person can know about biology, anatomy, science, practical experience, wisdom, trial and error, all the things you know about supplementation genetics it's all that put together. It's really understanding how your body works and then doing what you can to make it work better. It's the kind of way I simplify it. You're right, the biohacking movement's got a little bit odd in some places. It's got weird in the sense of some modalities, machinery, things that are done. It's like, oh boy, you know, I suppose in that there's some good things that people can learn.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 46:54

I like to look at it. You know people have referred to us before as the original biohackers because we were doing that kind of thing before it was known as biohacking. So I guess it's. We probably have a lot of experience in that, just doing that, because my wife and I've been doing this for, you know, 40 years apiece, you know, individually and together, and that's a lot of time. But I like to look at it like this. I want to like do what I can do to increase health span and do what I can do to decrease self-sick span so that I can have a better mix of that in my lifespan. And so I don't really control how long I live, but I do control how I live. And so in that whole space, you know biohacking, longevity, whatever you want to call that you know it. Really it boils down to Sandy just doing the things that we know to do to benefit our lives so we can benefit others in a better manner on a daily basis.

Sandy Kruse: 47:58

Yeah, but like, when I look at you, you're pretty balanced, you know, in the sense of body, mind, spirit. I've gone to some conferences and you know it's just like whoa, like no, that paleo stick over on that table is not going to serve as my lunch, it's just not. You know what I'm saying. Like you see some things that are really imbalanced in the biohacking world and I know a lot of people in the industry and I'm like that doesn't look like that's going to support my longevity and that doesn't look. You know that, to me that that looks like frailty. And you know what I'm saying. Like, I'm like, listen, I'm not, I'm not a skinny woman, I am not a bodybuilder, I am, I'm, I'm your average woman that just wants to really support my health as I age. And that's kind of where I'm at, mark.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 49:03

Yeah, you bring up a very good point and I appreciate, you know, your compliment about being balanced. I really worked on that because I probably used to be more imbalanced, quite frankly. You know, because you know that's the truth. When you find something that's true and you become passionate about it, you know which is your purpose, which drives you, know your passion. It's a wheel.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 49:26

Sometimes you can become so passionate you close your mind to listening to other people's points of views, and I was probably like that in my life a lot of times and I realized over time that every single person that we deal with is different. You know, whether we live in Toronto or Oklahoma, it's just different. And so in all the places and times we've been on the stage in front of thousands of people or whatever the case may be, I keep in mind that everybody's different. And, to your point, I want everybody to raise their bar of average higher and to raise their bar of acceptance higher. I don't want people to have less than they want or less than they could.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 50:13

As a leader, an influencer, whatever that means, you know, I always want people to push to a higher level of what you want to achieve, and that means in all areas of your life you know physical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual and, to me, in your own world, within that uniqueness of society. Everybody can find something there and you can rally behind that and then you can help each other. And you know, in communities like yours, you know people can lift up each other. Maybe someone's stronger in this area and someone's stronger in this area. It doesn't mean either one's wrong, but you can glean something from everybody in every situation to raise the bar of excellence for all of us, from everybody in every situation to raise the bar of excellence for all of us.

Sandy Kruse: 50:56

I love that, so let's get into. Okay, this is really interesting. Mark, you're going to find this interesting. I was just listening. I didn't finish it. Do you know who William Davis is? Dr William Davis. He's the author of all the Wheat Belly books.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 51:15

Yeah, yeah, I've heard the name and I had to put the connection there.

Sandy Kruse: 51:19

Okay. So I interviewed him a couple of years ago. We did a show on cholesterol, but he has his own podcast and has like over a year ago, I think it was over a year ago, and I was like over a year ago, I think it was over a year ago I started going. No, it was way, it was even a couple years ago. I was in remember Clubhouse.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 51:41

I do.

Sandy Kruse: 51:42

Remember that. So it was in a Clubhouse group and it was with a large group of women and they were talking about how cold plunge is the be all, end all and everybody's got to do it, and all this stuff. And I'm like I don't agree with that and they're like, but the science says so and right. And so I was like you know what? I don't think that that's true. So I we had a cold plunge tub in our backyard last year and I did it. And then a couple people were at my house and there was somebody who could not do it under any circumstances. There was no way. It was like they were going to die.

Sandy Kruse: 52:53

And Dr William Davis released a podcast recently about how we ought to be careful with giving this cold plunge advice as a blanket thing for everybody to do, because there are cardiovascular risks. If you have a condition, there are Right. So I'm like, well, that kind of explains it. And then there's also the whole nervous system thing going on. That can happen with a lot of women at menopause. They've got a lot of stressors going on, and while stressors can be good A lot of stressors going on and while stressors can be good, we know that they can also maybe not be so good, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on cold plunge.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 53:28

Well, I look at cold plunge much in the same way that William Davis does. Is the sense? Because we actually run performance and longevity genetics as well and, interestingly enough, we have the genes that really deal with the ability to tolerate cold on there, and so we're able to derive that individual person who, from a genetic standpoint at least, does not tolerate cold. Well, and then they do. There's some that do, and obviously the more you tolerate it, the science would show and would indicate that it would be better for reduction of inflammation, which probably is true. But if you're a person that doesn't tolerate it, that can become a negative because it can create great stress. And maybe you don't tolerate the cold. Well, you can't get that switch from white fat to brown fat. The same is true with the sauna, you know, regulating those heat shock proteins. There's some people that can't handle that heat, some people can, some people get more benefit, some people get less benefit, and I think both of the theories behind that are accurate.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 54:24

But again, they're too generalized and the theme here is the too much generalization of these topics. It sells a lot of products because it's like the end-all, be-all and it seems to me that when profit drives principles versus principles driving profit. There's kind of two different angles there, and so, for one, I can tell you that I do cold plunge at times, because my body does tolerate the cold well and I do tend to get reduction of inflammation. On the other side, I also use a sauna because it's like the cold brings that internal constriction of the blood and then as soon as you get hot, it releases it, so you get this better blood flow and the healing is in the blood. And then as soon as you get hot, it releases it, so you get this better blood flow and the healing is in the blood. Right, but it's very important to know that people don't tolerate that the same.

Sandy Kruse: 55:24

I like what you just said about. I'm using that line. I'm stealing it, mark. You got it, it's free when profit drives principle yeah, so we built. This would be going back seven, probably seven years ago. Eight years ago we built a little small therapy room. We were doing a renovation in our basement. We're like this is wasted space, let's put a little therapy room. We put uh, it's a far dry infrared sauna good and then we put a juve panel.

Sandy Kruse: 56:01

This is back. You know, juve, do you know? You know who juve it? They were like kind of like the og of the red light therapy like eight years ago.

Sandy Kruse: 56:11

So we did that and we made a cute little room and I was doing red light with infrared sauna, almost, I would say, five days a week, I would say. And in the last year I don't even go there. Is that bad? No, I do know why I'm not going there. It's because in the last year I've had a lot of ups and downs with my hormones, so I just didn't resonate with going in the heat. It just it did not resonate with me at all, and so I just kind of avoided doing that room for the last little while.

Sandy Kruse: 56:55

But now things are starting to get more balanced with me that I'm going to probably try again. But I think listening to your body is a good thing as well, like there might be, you know, stages in your life where something just doesn't work, so don't force it if it's not feeling good. I did do cold plunge. A couple weekends ago, though, I went with my girlfriends away for just a girls weekend up north, and it was like this spa that does hot and cold plunges. So we did do that and I actually lasted over one minute in the cold and I was like oh, not bad, sandy.

Sandy Kruse: 57:40

So, yeah, I like what you're saying, though what gene is that, though, mark?

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 57:45

Well, I don't have those genes memorized. There's a whole panel. What I'll do is I'll take a snapshot of those various SNPs and I'll send that to your email so you can research those.

Sandy Kruse: 57:57

Yeah, and I'll do that for anybody who's listening, we will have your link in the in the show notes as well, so that they can see. Okay, maybe we have time for one more, and this is going to be a good one. I think you're going to like this because I know my opinion on it. But I'd love to hear your opinion on psychedelics, because everybody and their mother's talking about it. You're hearing celebrities and biohackers. Biohackers, and you know, when I went on my ayahuasca journey, I came back and completely tore up my life and divorced my husband. You see what I'm saying, so you kind of probably have an idea of my opinion on it too. But yeah.

Sandy Kruse: 58:45

I would love to hear yours.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 58:47

Well, they're very popular in discussion today, you know, and obviously they operate on parts of these serotonergic receptors in our brain and you know, we all know there's LSD, there's the psilocybin, the mushrooms, mdma, et cetera. You know, all these things are out there and it's. I suppose it's there's some level of intrigue there for some people that are trying to maybe get off of addictive things. I suppose that's probably something that could be considered. It's out there. Do I think they're for everybody? No, I don't, because I'm always against things that alter brain state from what is normal and I realize people have different levels of normal from abnormal because we still have to face life and a lot of the selling points of the psychedelic industry is it is a greater consciousness or a greater awareness of things. You know and okay, fine, um, if, if that's trying to translate to getting high, you know I don't think that getting high is necessary to experience life to the fullest. I don't want my brain to be impaired.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 1:00:01

I also know from my previous background in law enforcement there is a level of addiction that can happen. There is a level of paranoia. I have seen people have paranoid outbursts with my very own eyes using psychedelics, specifically LSD, pcps and things like that. I've seen people feel no pain with PCP and even in my own experience I've had them fight me and several other police officers way back when, and they seem to have supernatural strength Highly dangerous, highly addictive sold on the street. They used to dip cigarettes in PCP. Back in the day People would smoke those things. So as much as it intrigues me some of the potential therapies that could be used in isolated situations to help addicted folks, I can't get myself to the point and maybe I'm not up on it all the way, maybe I'm missing something, self-admittedly, but I can't get myself to the point where I can say that it'd be good for everybody to get out there and just try psychedelics, you know, because sometimes going down the wrong path, where what you think is the right pathway, can be a dreaded wrong pathway.

Sandy Kruse: 1:01:18

Yeah, I kind of I align with you in that you know there's, I think there's a place for it. So I've done two shows on it, just because I find it kind of fascinating. Yeah, I do find some of the research behind it interesting fascinating. Yeah, I do find some of the research behind it interesting. But I think that you know general people without addictions, without issues, without you know serious traumas, without, like I'm like, proceed with caution, you know just 100.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 1:01:51

you better be cautious because ultimately anything that that sort of alters brain chemistry I mean you can take another angle at this that's very similar to the same principle. You know a lot of the antidepressant drugs that work on the serotonin receptor. You know you're talking about a medicinal principle that's doing the same conceptual thing as maybe a natural thing that's doing the same thing, and so just caution is the word there. I don't think it's for everybody. I mean we know people we sent for using ketamine. They were trying to get off of some pain pills and things like that. Okay, fine, sometimes that can work, but it needs to be under supervision and direction and not just haphazard.

Sandy Kruse: 1:02:32

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've, I've, I've heard of some horror stories too, like you know where these, these plants, plant medicines don't ever allow you to forget things, and that's kind of, I guess, where that paranoia comes in, what you were saying. And, anyway, that's great that we covered off. There's some more that we could talk about, but I know, you have a hard stop, and so I would just love for you to tell the audience where they can find you.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 1:03:03

Well, I appreciate you, sandy. Thank you so much for this great time. They can find us at Sherwoodtv Super easy, and there's all kinds of free information there and free stuff and, like you, we're just trying to be a blessing to people out there and give them some hope.

Sandy Kruse: 1:03:18

Yeah, I loved my conversation with you. It's just been great to meet you and chat with you.

Dr. Mark Sherwood: 1:03:25

Well, I feel the same way. I'm very fortunate and blessed to be with you today. Thank you.

Sandy Kruse: 1:03:29

Thank you, mark. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to share it with someone you know might benefit and always remember when you rate, review, subscribe, you help to support my content and help me to keep going and bringing these conversations to you each and every week. Join me next week for a new topic, new guest, new exciting conversations to help you live your best life.