In today's episode we go deep on the medicinal benefits of many varieties of mushrooms with Dr. Mason Bresett who is the medical advisor of Real Mushrooms. Mason also has his own naturopathic practice in Sarnia, Ontario – The Health Creation Lab. He uses medicinal mushrooms, herbal medicine, hydrotherapy, acupuncture, nutrition, and mind-body medicine in his clinic to support his patients. He provides cutting edge research and education for Real Mushrooms Practitioners – a group of health care professionals (MD’s, ND’s, DC’s, etc) using Real Mushrooms products in their practices. He actively works with medical doctors and oncologists setting up research studies using medicinal mushroom extracts.
We discussed the medicinal properties of some of the big players in the culinary and medicinal mushroom arena, including Lion's Mane, Reishi, Chanterelles. We also discussed some of the regular mushrooms you see in the grocery store, like white button and cremini.
Are you aware that Lion's Mane can enhance brain health?
Or that there are even benefits in your regular white button mushrooms?
Or that there is a reason you should buy mushrooms organic?
This and so much more is discussed in this fascinating episode.
To get in touch with Dr. Mason Bresett at his practice go here: The Health Creation Lab.
For fantastic quality mushrooms, check out Real Mushrooms.
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Hi everyone. It's Sandy Cruz from Sandy Kay nutrition, health and lifestyle queen. And I'm here to show you that balanced living works. This is especially for all you ladies, over 40, we will cover a range of exciting topics, many special guests, and I really look forward to this season. Bye for now. Hi everyone. Welcome to Sandy K nutrition, health and lifestyle queen. Today with me, I have a special guest. His name is MEE . He is a naturopathic doctor and the medical advisor for real mushrooms. And we had a long chat about mushrooms today. And I'm not gonna tell you all about it because that's why you gotta listen to the podcast. Right? I will say I've been a little bit fascinated with mushrooms, culinary mushrooms, medicinal mushrooms, and even SIC Ibin . I mean, I recorded with TA and Cole witty a few weeks back just before Christmas, you can go back to that episode. If you wanna know more of about psychedelics, that was episode 89, released a few weeks back, and I love to cook with culinary mushrooms because I just have learned so much about how amazingly beneficial they are. And just a couple weeks ago, maybe it was my last week. I put out a recipe on my Instagram of lions main bone broth soup. I'm gonna guess you probably haven't seen anything like this anywhere. It is my own creation. So I will say, definitely go and follow me on Instagram at Sandy K Nutri . I'm also on Facebook. I'm on TikTok. I'm on Pinterest. I'm on Twitter. I'm at all these places. And what I offer to my followers is a lot of content, a lot of information to just help you live better. And that is really my primary goal in life is just for myself and my family to age well and try and do our best to prevent diseases. I mean, there's no guarantees in life, but this is what I'm all about. So I do a lot of research, a lot of studying to figure what is the right way to do certain things. And when I say the right way, it's always gonna be the right way for me. It's not necessarily gonna be right for everyone, but definitely go follow me there. Another thing I wanted to mention is that it is so, so, so important for you guys to rate review, subscribe, provide my podcast with a few written words on apple, and now you can rate on Spotify. You can't actually write a review, but you can rate on there. So if you listen on Spotify, please do that for me, because that just helps my podcast to be found. It helps me to be able to continue to bring amazing guests to you and fabulous topics. And so if you would do that for me, I would appreciate it. I'm sure I'm gonna have some sort of a little con test coming again soon. So definitely keep on the lookout for that. And with that, I am going to bring to you my interview with Mason, Brit of real mushrooms. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Sandy K nutrition, health and lifestyle queen. To with me , I have a special guest. His name is Mason bet . He is a naturopathic doctor and a medical advisor for real mushrooms. And I really was excited to have an expert in mushrooms because everybody's talking about mushroom these days and I've even been talking about it for months now. So I went and Seeked out an expert in this area because I have been doing a lot of playing around with culinary mushrooms and not your usual white button mushrooms. So I wanna talk all things mushrooms, and I wanna welcome you Mason to my podcast.Speaker 2:
Thanks Sandy . It's great to be here. And yeah, people are interested in mushrooms for good reason right now. Uh, my ecology is such an interesting, and it plays such a fascinating and interesting role in our health and our ecosystem and, and kind of everything in between. So I'm happy to be here today.Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm, I'm excited to take on this topic always. It's very important for me to understand how did you get into naturopathic medicine and why did you choose this route instead of alopathic Western medicine,Speaker 2:
You know, the conventional route was you go to school, you get some sort of degree and you kind of take it from there. And, you know, from a more like left brain logical perspective, I, I always wanted to help people. And I always thought that maybe the health field was somewhere where I could apply myself. So , um, with that knowledge, you know, at a high school, I, I moved to Northern Ontario and I spent a lot of time in thunder bay doing my undergrad and I was studying basic human movement and kinesiology at the time. And during my time in thunder bay, I, you know, I started to connect with some, you know, like-minded people now that I look back and, you know, just wondering, you know, what else is out there in terms of like a personal development perspective and also from like a holy cow, I gotta , you know, figure out what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. And I happily stumbled upon a chiropractor and he was really thorough and , um, supportive in my journey. I really liked what the chiropractor was doing in terms of his, you know, very personalized and , uh , human connection. He was having with his patients and he said, you know, he liked the body, but you're also into, you know, nutrition, herbal medicine, you love hiking and being in the outdoors. So you should go work with a naturopathic doctor that I know for a few months. So I started to intern with the local naturopathic doctor in thunder bay, Dr . Jessica is her name and tell him , you know, it was the same sort of thing as Dr . Steve, the chiropractor was teaching me, but it was just, you know, how can we support people with their healthcare needs and do it in a very humane and individualized manner. So that's kind of the start I got. And then I , um, pursued more education in naturopathic medicine in , uh , in Vancouver.Speaker 1:
Oh, amazing. Yeah. I feel like we all kind of choose the right path . I actually, even at one point thought I was going to go back to school to become a naturopath, but then I was like, I'm getting old. So , um, I don't have as much time to go back to medical school. So this is why I became a holistic nutritionist, but really it's what you align with. And I aligned with that side versus the side of the , uh , more alopathic Western side. So, okay. Let's, let's talk about mushrooms because this is your specialty and you obviously have a ton of knowledge. Like what is with mushrooms? Is this just another health trend? Because everyone's talking about it, like why, why mushrooms and why now?Speaker 2:
I think it is here to stay. I don't think it's a trend. I think it's , um, something that people are really gonna come to understand the versatile , versatile nature of, and the therapeutic benefit while also being, you know, really, really safe and accessible for a lot of folks. Um , you know, I don't know why the, well, maybe I'll , I'll give you my best shot, so , but I don't know why people are really interested in ology right now, but I think it has to do something just with the way that people are connecting more with, you know , different solutions for either their healthcare or another domain that they're in and really , um, looking for more root cause solutions versus, you know, these bandaid approaches, which is how our reactive healthcare models have been kind of built upon. And, you know, mushrooms are so popular because they're, they're very medicinal and I , I'm an expert in the medicinal qualities of mushroom. So that's what I'll speak a lot on today. And they're also very , um, very easy to implement and accessible. Like I said, for people also in sort of the lifestyle wellness space. So they're , they're a thing that are used clinically from anywhere from like immune disorders to stress disorders, to cancer. And then they're also used as sort of like dysfunctional food, which, you know, can help most people out with some of these things that we're all struggling with. Um, no matter what walk of life you come from, you know, like sleep digestion, energy, you know, so their , their breadth of action and also their , uh , uniqueness I think is why people are really interested in this topic right now. And it's, it's fascinating, you know, we're learning more and more every day about new research studies, new compounds in mushrooms. So I'd be happy to chat, you know, about some of these things that we're, we're finding with either clinical cases or also just through the search .Speaker 1:
Absolutely. I mean , uh , even I I've become somewhat obsessed, you know, I got one of those apps so that when I'm walking in the forest, I can identify like, oh, what is this? And what is that? And, you know, I'm, I'm walking with one of my girlfriends and she's just like, oh, okay, Sandy needs to stop and take a photo of a mushroom room. All right . Then I'll just wait here . Like, you know, it's just kind of funny that I find them so fascinating, but I guess that's why I'm in this industry. Right. So I guess the first thing, one of the things that we know about is that they're adaptogenic. So perhaps you can explain what does an adaptogen mean and what does it do for us?Speaker 2:
Yeah. So , uh, the, you know, the very cliche, basic understanding or definition of an adaptogen is , um, any sort of plant or medicine that will help us react or respond to stress more favorably. So usually this has an impact on some of the hormonal centers in our body, and then also correlated, you know, sometimes with like dampening inflammation, but usually revolves around, you know, building up a tolerance to stress , which usually means helping sleep or energy in some way or form. And because of the sort of connection between our psychology and our nervous system and our immune system, it all often means that adaptogens have a direct effect on our immune system. And, you know, we hear it all the time that mushrooms are known for being big immune , um , herbs, or, you know, they often get ripped into herbs, but big immune mediators. So , um, through their role as an adaptogen , um, they're able to impact different system in our body that I think, and, you know, I could be totally wrong, but I think they impact our immune system, our energy levels and how we rest in our body.Speaker 1:
Mm . Okay . That's probably why, cuz everybody seems to need some , um, a little bit of help these days with their stress levels. Right. So that's a big, big point right there. Okay. Now I know this is different than the mushrooms, but what are your, just, what are your thoughts on SIL suicide , cuz that comes from mushrooms and that's a different type of mushroom. This is more of a psychedelic mushroom, but still part of the same family . So what do you think about that?Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think , um, you know, I can only touch on what I have a little bit of experience in, and that's just staying up to date with some of the, you know, the interesting studies that are being done that have been stalled for many years based on, you know, the war on drugs and psychedelic compounds, being something that , um, weren't of interest to the medical community. So yeah. You know, without getting too far into it and making any direct recommendations. I think that based on the studies that I've seen Sy Ibin has the potential to really , um, rewire sort of our cognitive or our neurology, meaning our brain . And, you know, there's been studies that have been coming out when they've been doing this , um, uh , registered research with some of the, the , the universities and colleges in the UK and in the United States showing that, you know, it has, you know, almost , uh , abundant intent when used in the sort of psychiatry realm or the mental health realm , um, when used in a very safe, contextual relationship. Um, I, I hope that, you know, throughs, suicide , and, and for those, you know, who don't have a , a big idea, this is the compound that's in , um , magic mushrooms that have, has a , uh , psychotropic effect, meaning it changes your consciousness at some level. And I hope during, you know, all this research, we, we start to understand that these things are living things from our earth. And oftentimes , um, these medicines have been used far, far previous to conventional research, usually by first nations, indigenous , um , indigenous , um , peoples all over the world. So I hope there's that sense of reciprocity that gets infused into the, the landscape, but it's really exciting, you know, the stuff that it's , um , helping, you know, there's some really interesting research on addictions. You know, like for example, there's a study that CYS a part of, and it's on smoking cessation. So quitting smoking and after the , um , treatment , um , there was sort of an 86% , um , remission rate. And once they followed up with these people after , um , another six week period, I think the first one I could be getting these numbers off a little bit, but they followed up after say six weeks and then they followed up again. So at the first check-in point, there was an 86 remission rate, 86% remission rate, meaning that people didn't smoke, they didn't smoke one cigarette. And they were able to abstain from that , um , behavior addiction when they followed up again at that second checkpoint, it had went down to about 60% to give comparison when , and this is a small sample size. So we have to keep that in mind. But in comparison, when looking at the best standard of care, meaning what the, the conventional treatment to that point was the success rate for the conventional treatment sits around 15 to 30% . So the, you know, these numbers are coming out more and more with different pathologies, different things that show that , um, Sy Sabin has, you know, potential in the very, in illegal context rate now and in a therapeutic setting to reframe and re kind of calibrate our nervous system and our neurology at some level and with intention and with proper guidance and why not ? It's, you know, it seems like there's gonna be lots of people that are gonna be supportive when this gets pushed through. Yeah . AndSpeaker 1:
Already are . Yeah. I think in Canada right now, it's legal with a therapist, I believe a licensed therapist or something like that from what I read. Um , but yeah, I've read some of that too, and it's quite fascinating as well. So in , I guess before we get into the details on the different medicinal properties of mush , S are there any contraindications to mushrooms? I hope you're all enjoying today's episode, as much as I enjoy bringing it to you every single week today, I have a new sponsor to bring to you. And that is the Canadian school of natural nutrition. Canada's capital , Ottawa. Most of you know, that podcasting is not my day job and I am actually a registered holistic nutritionist. Most of you're aware that I went back to school, went back to college in my mid forties to be able to do what I do now. It is definitely a passion right next to podcasting. Do you aspire to have a meaningful career where you help people? Are you passionate about food, nutrition and wellness? This life changing program could be for you earn a diploma in natural nutrition and , and become a registered holistic nutritionist. Just like me at the Canadian school of natural nutrition in Canada's capital , Ottawa with live virtual interactive classes available and flexible schedules, you can study from the comfort of your own home, no matter where you are in the world, you guys register for spring 20, 22 is open now both full-time and part-time programs are available. And if you have any questions about this at all, from my personal experience, feel free to get in touch with me as well. So go check it out at www.csnn.ca/ottawa . And all of this information will also be in my show notes. And now back to our podcast episode, I guess, before we get into the details on the different medicinal properties of mushrooms, are there any contraindications to mushrooms?Speaker 2:
Um , generally they're pretty safe, but we always have to talk about, you know, what the, what ifs, the contraindications, the dangers , um , you know , some people have like a , an am , an immune anaphylaxis reaction to mushrooms. Okay. So those people, you know, just like peanuts or just like shellfish, these people may have that reaction. That's pretty rare compared to some of these other foods like peanuts or shellfish, or , um, you know, those are some of the big ones. Um, yeah. You know, you have to take into context , um, the different , uh , organ systems. They're pretty, you know, they're metabolized by the, the gut and the kidney and the liver. So anybody with, you know, compromised organ function, you're gonna wanna adjust dosing or maybe not do certain things at certain times or certain mushrooms, but , um, generally they're pretty safe. And I would say 90% of people I've had no problem, even on multiple medications even on, or even have serious, you know, even autoimmune diseases. Um, so they're pretty safe for most people, but there's a it's case to case really when you're using a more higher dose of a mushroom. Um, and it's really important to know, you know, what kind of mushroom you're using, what , what kind of, part of the mushroom you're using , um, or what time , what part of the fungal organism you're actually using. And then also , um, you know, the, the quality control, you know, are you picking it from the wild? Do you know what you're picking? Um, are you getting it from a reputable company? All these different things come into play when talking about safety, but generally they're one of the most safest things, just like hurdle medicines , um, some are blood thinning and can lower people's blood sugar, which sometimes we use to our advantage, that side effect. But, you know, you have to be mindful of sometimes people, if they're going in for a surgery or they are on some sort of anti , um , clotting medication, it may, they may just have to adjust their dose. But overall, these things, these, these things , um, these medicinal mushrooms are , are quite safe because they're a food first.Speaker 1:
Okay. So just back to that whole thing, just you're mentioning liver kidneys. Like I always, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mason, but I always think if it is a food substance, your liver is going to be able to process it, assimilate it much easier than a chemical, right? Like, isn't it true that it's less taxing if you're taking a food substance, that it's gonna be less taxing on all of your organs, but I guess it depends on if you're taking a heap load of pharmaceuticals as well. Right. Like, would you agree with that?Speaker 2:
Yeah. You know, there they're natural things that come from the earth and our body has, you know, some sort of innate intelligence on how to deal with these things more than a synthetic compound. Absolutely. Um, and yeah, what I just meant there was like, you know, somebody with like really all or really , um , really , um , I forget the word that I just was gonna say, but, you know, decrease liver or kidney function, for sure. That's, you know, those really serious cases, that's when you have to be really , um, on the watch, but even then, like in even stage two, stage three , um, kidney failure, I've used Cortis, which is actually a really good, safe, mushroom view . So it's all about, you know , the type of mushroom and the , you know , the function of the actual organs. But yeah, those are very limited those cases and that's just like end stage stuff, so .Speaker 1:
Right. Okay. Good to know. Um, okay. So let's, let's get into the fun stuff. So tell me about, so, you know, you go to the , I personally buy my mushrooms from farmers' markets and, you know, because that's where I'm gonna find the more rare stuff I'm gonna find the Chans . And I'm gonna find the , uh, lions main , like I made up a recipe of lions, main bone broth soup, which I , I still haven't released the recipe, but it it's pretty fabulous. And it's something that I like to experiment with. So you've got your Carini . Okay . Everybody knows what a Carini mushroom , uh , white button mushroom, maybe talk to me about the different categories, cuz from my understanding there's different categories, right?Speaker 2:
Yeah. There's different categories and you know, these are all , um, they have different names, you know, in ology and I'm not an expert in the different, you know, families and whatnot , but right. Yeah. There's, there's some, you know, some common lines you can find at pretty much every farmer's market or uh , Superstore or grocery store or market, whatever you're shopping at , um, the white or brown button , the Carini they're very popular. Um, so you'll find those pretty much everywhere. And those have a decent amount of medicinal benefits. Oh, do they?Speaker 1:
Oh, I didn't know that. I, I thought the white was like nothing. So yeah. Let's cuz those are probably the things that most people cook with. Right?Speaker 2:
Yeah. And you know, there's, there's lots of those in the store and those are , you know, they're put on pizzas salads, all that I would recommend cooking them . You know, the cooking process with mushrooms breaks down some of the , um, outer protective layer in plants, it's called cellulose in mushrooms. It's called , uh , kit . So it's a hard undigestible fiber that gets broken down with either heat or water or both. That's why some of the products on the market are hot water extract, which is how they've been used. Traditionally in Asian European south American cultures is that they're usually put in a St or a soup or it to some capacity, but white button mushrooms, brown button mushrooms and um, portabello mushrooms. Those are actually all three of the same family. Um, portabello are actually just they're left longer. They just get to grow longer. Okay. Um , and you know, the , some of the minor benefits of these mushrooms , um, they've got a lot of fiber. Um , they've actually been sourced or quoted in a lot of the Asian studies on , um, mushroom consumption and possibly the chance to reduce cancer in certain demographics like pre and post menopausal women. So in , um, you know, places like China, Japan, Korea, they mostly source or site , um , these white button mushrooms, oyster mushrooms and no key mushrooms in the, in the studies. Um, so oyster mushrooms are sometimes available in superstores there another popular one that you can see around either baby king oyster, king oyster, or , uh , regular. And they have a decent amount of , um , health benefits. They, they all sort of have this basic , um, complex polysaccharide, which just means complex sugar in them called beta glucans . And every mushroom has beta cans. And this is what has been studied modernly in , in research showing that this is what impacts our immune system the most. Um, then when you get to start looking into these other mushrooms, they all have sort of these other like , um , we call them secondary active compounds. So the active compounds are these big ones that are in all mushrooms, like beta glucans, polysaccharides, and then they have these minor constituents or that are different. You know, like you said, lions main lions main has these interesting compounds, like , um , Ana scenes and Harris casinos . And they are, you know, being studied right now at a cellular and animal level for brain health. And also there's a four there's about four or five human studies lions main now. And it's these secondary compounds, which makes these things kind of have like a personality, you know, like you and I kind of have , um , a face that's not quite the same, but mushrooms are kind of the same, you know, the structures there, they have the beta cans, they have some fiber, they have some anti , um, or some inflammation modulating compounds, but then they have all these different compounds that are so unique to every mushroom that , um, it's really fascinating. And , um, there's, you know, pages and pages of studies on each of these compounds and how they interact differently with the body. So I kind of went a little tangent there after the white button, but um, white button mushrooms are, you know , they're studied, you know, mostly for breast prostate cancers, but you know, they have unique compounds in them like white button mushrooms have possibly , um, anti aromatase factors in them that maybe support those different graphics that I've been talking about, which , um , relates to hormones and things like that.Speaker 1:
Oh, okay . I didn't even know that about the white button.Speaker 2:
Yep . Yeah. Aerus , is there kind of other , um , lap name that is more of their , you know, sciencey nerd , mushroom name , um, and there's different species of agars. Um, but yeah, there's, you know, those are the culinary ones and I , I named off a lot of them , you know, like the white button, the oyster, the in Noki , these are things that are, are Shataki is also put in this category lot . Taki is well known , well found at any grocery store. Yes, these are highly Medicin readily accessible medicinal mushrooms and they often are cooked into food. Um, there's a whole other category where the mushrooms themselves aren't that , um, how do I say it? They're not that integrable into a lot of the culinary aspects, so they're more harder mushrooms, like , uh , Rachi is a very , um, stiff or hard mushroom that has a ton of medicinal potential. And it's been used in China, China , or China, or , um, many years. And it's more of a hard mushroom. So you don't really find it in , um, meals, cuz it's not that enjoyable to shoe on, but it's usually in soups or it's usually made into a hot water extract or an alcohol extract to kind of pull out those medicinal compounds, which you can then, you know, integrate into a powder and then you can put it into recipes and whatnot . Yeah. These more medicinal mushrooms, some of them have, you know, a different structure to them. Some of them are harder, so you need some sort of extraction process to get their , um , medicinal benefits out of them . And like I mentioned earlier, the breakdown of that outer fungal wall or mushroom wall kit is usually done by cooking or hot water. And some of these mushrooms like ratio , they are, you know, put in soups or, or made into a powder so that you can readily access their medicinal benefits and ratio is , you know, it's a very highly revered mushroom in Asian cultures and in Chinese medicine still to this day in , in the sense that it's , uh , it's really helpful for an array of different conditions and also to support a healthy lifestyle.Speaker 1:
So I, you know, I take race , I usually take it in my Luci phase because, and I usually take it at dinner because I find it helps just with that whole parasympathetic nervous system state. Like, you know, you probably know this because you're a nare doctor , um, that, you know, women sit more often in the sympathetic nervous state in the second half of their cycle. So what do you think of that? Like, do you think it's really good for that, that stress signal or that nervous system state? What are your thoughts on that with Rishi ?Speaker 2:
Yeah, I , it's a great herb for modulating that, you know, that autonomic nervous system balance and there's, you know, a couple ways that we think that that may happen. And, but first and foremost, it's one of the most powerful and safe and true adaptogens in the sense that it helps your body, whether, you know, talking about a menstrual phase or a menstrual cycle or any other kind of stress just kind of helps the body deal with that a bit better. And maybe it's due to that, you know, that autonomic balance point , uh , I haven't seen, you know, a lot of research in that area, but we do know that Ray is really high on triterpenes and triterpenes are really unique to finding a , a mushroom because they're often found in plants, especially cannabis and triterpenes are these very aromatic compounds that are actually very bitter too. And they , um, are presumed through, you know, preclinical studies, clinical studies to have , um, what they call , uh , sedative effect . So, you know, that would line up really well with your kind of thinking with the , um, the LL phase and the parasympathetic, maybe needing a little bit more love and support , um, that, that ability for ratio to have those sedative , um , and it's not like a , you know, a big sleep medication or a izer or anything like that, but they have subtle relaxing and tonifying effects based on some of their compounds, one of them being those Tre terpenes.Speaker 1:
So what else, talk to me more about Rahi because Rahi , to me is one of the most fat one , so there's, there's that whole immune modulating there's the relaxation is there. And then you, you did mention something about anti-cancer when we were talking about more the culinary stuff, but I think these ones also have these properties as well, correct?Speaker 2:
Yep . So, yeah, Rahi is like, you mentioned a big immune herb too. It's not just an adaptogen, it's not just, you know, a little bit more calming for some people, but it has , uh , direct impact via those. Some of those compounds we were talking about earlier Omni immune system, and it seems to do really well, you know, on people, either going through surgery, radiation, or chemo of therapy , because what, what often happens with those treatments based on the mechanism of action with those treatments. And also the, the sheer stress of those treatments is that the immune system takes a bit of a dive. And some of these compounds like the beta cans and the , um , polysaccharide fractions in Rashi have been studied to help sort of , um, help with some of the immune cells. And when we see immune cells, we can then go down to another level and say, okay, which immune cells, you know, so the immune cells come from starting point in your bone marrow, and they all kind of have these like starting points. And then they kind of choose which route they want to take. And some of the cancer treatments , um, they have a, more of a negative impact on things like platelets or things like white blood cells, and Rachi can be a real big support. Um, you know, radiation therapy, it can be supportive and it's, you know , it's pretty safe. You have to oncologists sometimes , um , need a lot of data on it or they won't do it cause they just want to err on the side of safety, which is totally fine. It's a very involved process, but RACI has this capacity to kind of revitalize , um, uh , weakened immune system based on, you know, some of these impacts of oncology care or take it out of the cancer realm, come back to everyday life where you have cortisol. That is one of the biggest immune suppressors, same kind of scenario in a different , um, light , um, you know, and these help , the white blood cells, like I said, they can help platelets. They , um , have been studied on natural killer number and also activity. Um, we're trying to set up a study right now with , um, working with some oncologists where we're looking at , um, fatigue caused by different chemotherapy treatments and how Rashi may be a benefit just to support overall fatigue. Cause we know there's that whole dampening of the immune system, but also an energy and whatnot . Um, yeah, you know, some people are using it for sleep in that sedative effect or that, you know, that ans balancing effect that we were talking about , um, it's a Chi and blood to and Chinese medicine. So it's actually , um , really good when, you know, when relating to menstrual cycles because of the blood loss and it can actually nourish our blood and nourish. She and she is what moves blood around the body and blood. Um, you know, obviously if it's getting lost, whether that's some sort of disease or prognosis going or , um , pathogenesis going on or a menstrual cycle losing blood every month , um, Ray , she can be really helpful to tonify blood. And you know, our blood in a conventional sense is a little bit different from Chinese medicine and how they relate to blood. But Ray is a very good Chi in blood to meaning it supports that blood and which, you know, ultimately you need for healthy administration or , um , energy because blood carries our red blood cells and , uh , hemoglobins in it. Um, so Ray sheet is , uh , and that's why they call it a true adaptogen is cause it can do so many things. Um , or just a few things that I'd like to, you know, start there I could go on, but those are some starting points.Speaker 1:
Um, so here's a question for you. I don't know if you know the answer to this, but because it kind of, you know, chills you out a little bit, like you were saying, do you , would you say there are contraindications to individuals who are maybe on antidepressants or any of those types of SSRI men , medications ? Like, should they be speaking with their doctor about it?Speaker 2:
You know, like, yeah, I, you know, on the record here, I have to say you should always, you know, consult with your medical provider. Um , sometimes the degree of, you know, herbal or psychological strengths with your practitioner is different. So <affirmative> , um, yeah, you should always do that because there is, you know, there's always a potential, I can't say there's not, but generally, you know, I I've used them in cases like that. I can only speak for my own personal experience. And there's usually, you know, what I've seen, not an issue with people on , um , different SSRIs. It depends on the SSRI. Um, and it depends on the Medicare depends on the metabolism of that medication, but generally they're pretty safe even with those medications, but I can't say , um , a hundred percent for everybodySpeaker 1:
Makes sense. Nope . That makes sense. Yeah . And I, I do always say that too on my podcast that, you know, maybe now it's time for the little disclaimer, but you know, we're not giving medical advice here. We are just providing information. And this is for educational purposes only speak with your own medical practitioner about anything that you hear. We're not giving you advice here for your personal use. Yeah . So totally that's totally. Yeah. Um, okay, so let's move on to a couple of the other ones, because another , um, a couple of the other ones that I've used uh Cortis and , uh , lions main , like I was saying, I've cooked with lions main . I even have the supplement somewhere back there. I'm sure. But I haven't used it because I just, I don't personally see a need for it. But talk to me about those. Like, cuz they're a little different Cortis is also technically not even a mushroom. Right.Speaker 2:
It's you know yeah. It's um, it's in a different class than say, like the Shataki and the white button or the brown button or the Carini , um, it's still, you know, it's, it's an interesting, it has an interesting ecological role. Let's just put it that way. Um , it's still kind of grouped in with it, but yeah, I'd say it's still a mushroom, but it's, it's so much different and it's , uh , presentation in nature than other mushrooms. Um , so let's talk about cor decept. So Cortis um , traditionally, you know, found in places like , uh , Tibet, China, you know, there's Corti sub species in north America, you know, there's some in , um , Carolina, even there's some in north America and south America. Um , but they're more prevalent in some of these places like Chinese mountains to bed mountains. Um, and the traditional use of Cortis was with something called Corti SEP cen and Corti cen is a wild type of Cortis mushroom. And what is on the market today is usually not Corti sepsis . What they're cultivating now in north America and in Asia is something called Cortis mil terrace and Cortis mil terrace is just different species of Cortis and uh, syn is just really expensive because it has to be wild harvested. Now we're able to cultivate bring this to scale a little bit. Um, but the new mil Terra species has a lot of the same benefits as the ones they were using. Traditionally the Sy , um, there's a couple studies there's , there's lots of studies on Corso , but I'll mention just a couple. Um, a lot of people use it for energy because it has a very unique shape in the sense that very similar to , um, adenine and adenine is one of these kind of basic fundamental energy storehouses our body uses. So , um, Cortis has a compound in it called Corti Sapin and it's very similar to , um, this compound that is , um , readily available in the body they're in ATP or different forms. Um, so it's used a lot by bikers. Endurance athletes are really into cor decept because there's a couple studies out there showing that it can improve VO two max , which means basically your ability to do endurance activities for longer. Um, and traditionally this is how this mushroom was used , used as like a tonic when somebody was weak or they had some sort of convalescence or they had like chronic fatigue in more modern terms Cortis would be given to kind of help revitalize the body. And it's one of the strongest adapts in Chinese medicine, we call it very warming and , uh, it's very, tonifying meaning it's pretty powerful. And it has impacts on energy that are, you know, pretty noticeable for some clients. Some people , um, it's really beneficial for kidney health because again, in Chinese medicine it was used for that kind of revitalizing and that revitalizing , um, needs to happen because on the deepest level, people they're tired, they're weak and that usually affects their kidneys in a very traditional sense. Um, so yeah, it's used for kidney patients, whether that's like I mentioned , uh , kidney function is down a little bit. Um, there's a good study on Cortis , uh , drug derived from Cortis , um , showing immunomodulation activity, meaning it can kind of balance the immune system out. And this study was going through two different types of autoimmune thyroid disease and showed that Cortis really beneficial for these , uh, two, two , uh , different, very different expressions of autoimmune thyroid disease. So one is graves on one hand mm-hmm <affirmative> one is how she mod and it was able to , um, either bring up the immune cells that may be bringing up over here and bring the ones down that were beneficial and the same thing over here, same mushroom, different patient, different outcomes. So that's why we call them these immunomodulators, which means they have , um, a really good , uh , ability to tonify the body meaning, you know, if it needs a little bit of up or down, it can do that.Speaker 1:
That's amazing. Yeah. I, I know Cortis is one of those , uh , mushrooms that you really don't wanna take that at night, right? Like it's, I I've typically said that's one of those things that definitely wanna say for earlier in the day, because it does have that energetic or can have that energetic property, is that right?Speaker 2:
Yeah. And you know, a really sensitive person or patient would pick that up and they would, you know, maybe they get insomnia that night , you know , some people might be able to get away with it. You know, some people have coffee at 8:00 PM and they're fine. Um , but energetically, you nailed it. Like, it's just, it's more of a stimulating mushroom and you know, it can still be dosed at night, but like I said, if you're more sensitive to that energy or, you know, the , the dose, the , the nature of that mushroom , um , you might do well with more of like a calming adoption at night versus a more tonifying one.Speaker 1:
Totally. And I, and I'm one of those people that, you know, I can, I can get away with one cup of coffee early in the morning and not later on cuz then I'll be up all night. Like I, I have to really be careful and I know a lot of clients and middle aged women who have that issue with sleep. So yeah. Um, what about lions ma I'm, I'm a little bit fascinated with lions main because I, I know it's a medicinal mushroom, but it also can be culinary. Like I , I, I made it into this , it tastes, it almost ha well, I find it, no taste . I find Shaak to be quite strong. You know, my kids will kind of say it tastes a little bit like dirt <laugh> and so it's maybe not so appealing for kids, but , um, the Chiaki , but the lions main almost has like a, like a , I don't know, like a chicken consistency. What do you , so I kinda , I know that you can take it as a medicinal mushroom, but you can also cook with it. But the biggest thing is the cognitive right with lions main . Yeah.Speaker 2:
It's yeah, yeah . For sure. Lions . Yeah. It's both a culinary and a , uh , functional food now or a extract, however you want to call it and yeah, it's got this kind of like, proteiny kind of chickeny yeah. Seafoody and it can be really delicious in meals, if you can find it. It's really, it's kind of of harder if you're in a smaller center or people aren't really on the mushroom wave these days, you don't really have anybody growing or cultivating lions mean , but that's why some may choose to try a supplement, but if you can find lions main , it's great. Um, mushrooms are 90% water, which is why, you know, when you cook them down, they lose so much size and that when you get an extract, you're not getting any of that water. Um, but yeah, they're , they're mostly known for their cognitive or nervous system potential. Um, there's studies on different compounds, grown on different part parts of a fungus showing that it might be able to increase things like , um, nerve growth factor. And these are things that help nerves grow or neurons grow and BDNF there's, you know, there's one study that shows that Lyman can increase the pro, which is like the step before BD BDNF and BDNF is just another one of these brain neurology com pounds that help , um, anything from neurogenesis, meaning creating new brain cells , um, mood, things like that. They think that some of these compounds are related, but , um, some of the most , uh, common or modern, I should say lines , main studies show that they may have an impact on subjective cognitive , um , impairment, meaning , um , thinking better, you know, cognitively having better memory or problem solving skills. That's basically what comes into these , uh, kinds of things. Um, so, you know, there , there's still lots of research to be done there, but there's a lot of , uh , potential for, you know, working and, you know, Alzheimer Parkinson's , um , dementia. Like there's , they're , they're just terrible things. And, you know, for anybody's family that has experienced that, like it's, it's, you know, it's, it's pretty rough and you know, anything to support a brain now is really helpful. Um, you know, lions has those compounds that I mentioned , um, they're di terpenoids that help, you know, maybe stimulate these compounds that help our brain cellular activity work better. They're very anti-inflammatory and they're actually really good for the gut lines ma that's how they're traditionally used in Chinese medicine. And they help the spleen and the stomach O and little bit different from, and Western acknowledgement of the spleen or stomach, but basically they help our Gutto . And why this becomes important is because more and more really realizing that there's a gut brain connection. If there's any inflammation in the gut, you're gonna have the , um, gut barrier kind of get permeable. And that will sometimes lead to the blood brain barrier, be coming permeable. So lions ma you know, has been used as a stomach to , which is interesting, and now it's being studied for its brain potential. Um, and yeah, people are using it for, you know, longevity, you know, like for giving your brain some different things to , uh , stay healthy. And then also, you know, for motivation focus, some people like it for that, I myself haven't , um, done a lot with that, but I know some people get a really good kind of neutropic or motivated , um , impact from lion's name and, you know, because coffee sometimes doesn't work well. Some of our constitutions and our physiologies, sometimes these mushrooms can be a nice , um , adjunct to , uh , caffeinated beverage. And Navy still will give you some support in that kind of focus cognitive world. Um, there's another mushroom called Trello , which not a lot of people it's really , uh , being touted in a lot of skin care products right now, topically. Um , but internally again, it's a very medicinal mushroom and it is also , um , has a study on subjective cognitive decline and how it may help the brain. So those are two mushrooms that I think of when I think of , um, cognitive , um, there's another compound, which is actually really high in Guild mushrooms. So it's funny you brought up the it's not funny, but you brought up the Shataki mushrooms and they're actually called the fragrant mushrooms. So that's probably what your kids are picking up on. Is this , um , the dirt FRA name , dirt dirt, there's this compound in Guild mushrooms, leg oil , like Shataki and it's called Hery and Hery has a lot of preclinical studies on it right now. Um, you know, some of these, like before they get to their , their true randomized control trial , showing that it has , um, some promising potential for oxidative stress in the body, which means, you know, another fancy for inflammation, basically. So Perlin , and Lyman are two big things that if someone's looking to get into the municipal mushroom research, those are two things that I would suggest , um , reading up on and I can, you know, link some stuff in the show notes or , um , send some stuff over. ThatSpeaker 1:
Would be amazing because I , I mean, everyone's looking to lower inflammation, it seems right. And, and I guess we all have it a little to the , it doesn't even matter. You can even have, you can be the healthiest jogger in the world and have a ton of oxidative stress and damage. Right. So, okay. So now I'm gonna ask you a question, does organic really matter? So, okay. I, you know, if I go to the grocery store, I always look for organic. If I'm going to a farmer's market, a lot of the stuff that I'm buying is like literally picked from a forest, like, like for example. Uh Terrell's . Yeah . So what are your thoughts like when you go to the grocery store, should you be looking for organic? Cause I know a lot of people don't go to farmer's markets. Like I do. They don't find it as fun as I do, but <laugh>, but you know what I'm saying? Like, what should we, should we look out for? Is there a lot, do they store a lot of pesticides and thingsSpeaker 2:
With anything there's gonna be , uh , a level of contamination, you know, like there's, for example, there's, there's lead there's , um , natural metals in, you know, in most foods and you know, these come from our earth, like the Cru of our earth, and they're gonna be in things when it becomes more relevant is when, you know, in the food scene, like at the market, you know, you, you have crops that are more heavily sprayed with either a pesticide or a herbicide. Those are the ones I recommend my patients trying to get organic when they can. And the , um, EWG has a good thing , um, on the clean 15 and the dirty dozen , which you've probably heard about, and same thing with the mushroom mushrooms are actually on the , um, clean 15, because you don't need a lot of PEs size herbicides to grow them , but they , um, they are bio accumulators. So AR when you're getting an organic mushroom supplement, I always recommend getting an organic one , um, because of their bio accumulator activity. And what that means is that they're kind of like sponges. They will soak up diff things from their environment. So that's when it becomes really important to sometimes get that, especially when you're getting a supple limit , because it's becoming , um, processed down, not processed, but , um, extracted down to , uh , be a very concentrated thing. So at real mushrooms, we do, you know, testing on each one of our batches , which shows , uh , we test like 170 different chemicals, pesticides, herbicides included. So that's really important because mushrooms can be bio accumulators. And , um, we have had to, you know, tell other companies that we've, you know, seen different levels of heavy metals and stuff in a certain product when we quantify it through some of our testing, because they do have that capacity and with the, you know, agriculture these days and conventional farming , um, there's lots of chemicals going into the soil. So yeah, I would say with the wild harvested ones though , you're obviously gonna get less be if you know, that woods or that forest where the farmer's market folks are harvesting them from isn't around like a big spray zone. Right. So you're probably safe when you go to the market there. Um, but you know, there's still potential with wind and soil runoff and groundwater and stuff, but I would say, yeah, it, one of the one things I would try to get organic, but it's all about trust, really. You know, if you , like, I get my food and some mushrooms from a farmer, I trust them . I know their practices. So it's about having that conversation to , you know, where do you harvest your mushrooms? Um, what's around, you know , and I find them the more that they're open and transparent, the more that , um, the , the more that, that shows me , um , what I wanna kinda findSpeaker 1:
Totally makes sense. I do that with all my food. <laugh> right. Like if , if you're in our industry, then you, you like to know where your food comes from and let's face facts. Nothing is gonna be as easy as growing it yourself. I , I shouldn't say easy , um, as clean as growing it yourself, cuz then you know exactly what's going on around it, but asking the questions are key for sure. Um, okay now there's I have seen teas, right? There's like teas that have the extract. Isn't there like a Rishi tea, I believe. Am I wrong? There's different teas and then there's capsules and then there's powders and then there's um, eating the actual mushroom. The capsules are probably quite potent compared to eating it. Is that right?Speaker 2:
Yeah. Um , well it depends, you know, it's all on the dose, you know, if you were to eat like a lot of it, it depends obviously, but um, usually there's different types of products on the market. So for the simplicity of things, there's usually couple options. There's either dried powder, which is just, you take a mushroom, you dry it and then you powder it. Then you have an extract, which is you take mushrooms, you dry them , you cut them up or powder them. And then you put them in with hot water, you make a hot water extraction, meaning you increase the pressure or the water or the temperature or all three. And then you extract that into like a very strong tea you can imagine. Yeah. That's then that will then get spray dried into , um, uh , powder, which has less of that water that was in the fresh mushroom, less of that O Sacra are that , um , outside Chi or cutting . Um, so it's more potent. Yeah. And it's usually like eight times more potent, sometimes five times depends on the processing technique. Um, then you have tees and stuff and, you know, powders, which I just kind of explained in the , the capsules, they have the same kind of powder of that process that I just explained too . So those are the big ones. There's some spore products in Asia, but those aren't really popular here and they're not, you're not that popular anyway. And that's basically that reproduction part of the mushroom that kind of floats away. And you can capture that , um, and use that for, you know, growing mushrooms. But some it's used medicinally in some cultures that <affirmative> with the kind of substrate or the , um, the type of mushroom you're consuming in whatever way you can, you know? Yeah. You can eat them, which is great. If you can find them . And the ones at the Superstore are always available to folks and then you can use the powders or the capsules as needed, but the powders are really great. Cause you can throw 'em in smoothies. You can throw 'em in rice, you can throw 'em in soups. Um, very, very versatile. And because they're already hot water extracted, you can put them in things like feet , you can make tea outta them because that's not gonna damage the AC the medicinal compounds in them, the medicinal activity. Um, so those are, yeah, those are the big ones. And then it's always important to know, you know, because mushrooms are bio accumulators and they pick up those things from their environment. Like we said, they also really depend on their organic matter that they're grown on. So, you know, give an example of the Chan TRS that you were talking about. They're usually found, you know, after forest fires or burn sites or old gro or just like, you know, forests that haven't been really , um, traveled for a while and they're picking up on all the nutrients from their rotting wood , um, the deep composing wood chips or leaves and in nature, that's what mushrooms like most is to , um , have a really good substrate cuz it's like getting , um, the nutrition it needs and then that nutrition then gets to you. It's like, you know, animals. It's like, how are you feeding your animals? Are you feeding them soy and corn or the , you feeding them grass, you know, there's gonna be a difference there. Um, so with mushrooms you want them to have a good substrate, which wood is usually the best substrate cuz then it can , um, have all of those active compounds in it that you're looking for medicinally. Um, so that's when it becomes important on, you know, not only the access point of high you're taking the mushroom, but what the mushrooms diet almost was too, if that makes sense.Speaker 1:
Totally, totally makes sense. Because even still, I , you know, when I, when I cook with sh TRS , I will, you know, I had to <laugh> I had to learn how to wash them because if you put it in water, they just dissolve. Right. So you, you ha and, and I'm like, okay, well I feel like I'm not really washing them, but because they were harvested deep in the forest and there was nothing like they're , they're deep in that forest. Like, it's not like I need to worry about people spraying in that forest. So it it's a very gentle wa like wash, but it's neat because you have to really learn how to properly prepare and cook the mushrooms. But it's fun. Like I love it and I , I'm glad that I'm getting my family really used to it. And they're tr they're open to trying different things. Even the ones that taste a little leg dirt or smell like dirt. Um, but one thing before I forget, cuz we are gonna wrap things up, but I do wanna ask you about Turkey tail . Yeah . Turkey tail . So I see it even where I live, like I live in the suburbs, but I go for nature walks pretty regularly in the forest and I'll even see it there. So what's the deal with Turkey tail .Speaker 2:
Yeah. Turkey tail is one of the most , uh , widespread mushrooms in the world. So, you know, it grows in pretty much every corner of the world. Yeah . And it's , um, it can be highly confused with something called ball Turkey tail . So the way that you , um, differentiate is you look on the underside of the mushroom or the shelf mushroom. And if it has these little tiny pores that look like our skin pores mm-hmm <affirmative> and they're close together, that means you go a good Turkey tail . Oh, if it's, if it's flat, you usually working with something called false Turkey tail , which still has some medicinal benefits, but not as much as Turkey tail . Okay. Um, but Turkey tail is one of it is the most studied medicinal mushroom in the world. And it's the most studied in the avenues of <affirmative> . Um, people in research and in oncology and in science, whatever you want to call it, they have extracted certain , uh , protein bound polysaccharides. So what that means is there's just sugars attached with proteins in Turkey tail , they have isolated , uh, particular type of that in Turkey tail and all of the studies. Most of the studies at all , um, in Chinese medicine, it's in Chinese, it's called Y Z . And , um, it's one of the most studied mushrooms, like I said, and again, it's really , um, effective , uh , post chemo . Um, that's where it's used most or during adjunct oncology treat treatments . And it has the impact of, you know, increasing some of those , uh , immune cells. Like I said, it specifically seems to be good in what I've seen in white blood cells. Um, but it is , uh , very, very , um, safe mushroom even , uh , in those populations with, you know, an oncology diagnosis. And it is a very good , um , overall immune herb, which has got a great safety rating, you know, talking about safety earlier. It's very, very safe and, you know, it can be used long term . It can be , um, one of these mushrooms that has such a great safety profile that , um, I don't know if, you know, I can speak more , uh , praise to it because it is , um , one of those ones. But again, it's good for , uh , immune health and it's good for digestion. There's certain fibers in Turkey tail that stimulate , um , some positive bacteria in our microbiome and Turkey tail , um , is, you know, it's, it's, it's got a good , uh , solid taste to it. Um, some people like it, some people find it earthy, but it is a yeah, a very common, safe, and the most , uh , studied mushroom on the planet. Oh , I would saySpeaker 1:
Very cool. Okay. Now how do we incorporate mushrooms? So do we rotate them? Do we take them every day ? Do we take them according to need? Is there time that is needed for it to build up in the body for it to actually, for you to see a difference? Like, you know, for me, I know I take , um, I take, what was I saying, Rishi Rishi in the second two weeks of my cycle, I feel it makes a difference, but I also measure my HR-V . I measure my heart rate, my like, I, I get, I do all of that totally. With my aura ring . I've got my bios strap . I got all the gadgets, so I can tell it's making a difference. How should somebody incorporate? Like, can you take it for one day? Let's say I have a big project tomorrow and I really need to be laser fo focused . Can I take lion's main in the morning, one day and it will make a difference or does it have to build up?Speaker 2:
Yeah. You know, it's gonna have a difference cuz you're getting some of the, the compounds, but these are, you know, because they're foods, it's not just like you eat once and then you expect, you know, that to help you forever. Um, because they are more of a tonic and they're more of an adaptogen it's best to kind of use them for weeks or months on end and see how they respond to the body or in your body. Um, you can, you know, it's good to kind of take a break. I , I tell people, you know, you don't want to be on something forever. The body always adapts. It's always changing. It's always kind of looking for the next step. Even with some of these health things we have convinced ourselves to try. Um, but yeah, you can try them for themselves, you know, like taking a single mushroom and just kind of feeling that out and noticing how that makes you feel. But combining them is actually a really good tactic too, because like I said , each mushroom kind of has its basic foundation, but then it has all these unique characteristics to its first personality, which usually comes in form of compounds. So mixing and matching is, seems to be, you know, more beneficial for somebody looking for that general immune prevention where you're just , um , using it for an immunomodulating effect, not a stimulating effect, stimulating being like, you know, when you're sick. Um, but a modulating, I would say combining mushrooms is not a bad idea. And I actually recommend that all the time. And, and then, you know, when you do get sick, maybe that's when you shift to like more of a higher dose, because if you are taking a blend, you might be getting just like a little bit of each mushroom. So you're getting a gram or , um , if you're cooking, it it'll be, you know, a cups or whatever your measurement is , um, with , um, acute infections or whatever you might want to just stick to either , um, a higher dose of one mushroom to really get the benefits. If it is, you know, know Turkey tail or Rahi that supports immune system, all that great. Um , but they all have immune benefits. They all have, you know, that adaptogenic potential. So I'd say, you know , I didn't really give you a clear answer, but yeah, I would say take a break sometimes. Um, mix it up every once in a while and then also take one and get, be really consistent with it. So you can go notice the impacts on HR V on , uh , energy levels on these things that people track or looking to get support with.Speaker 1:
Perfect. That's perfect. All right . Well, this has been a great conversation, Mason. I really thank you for coming and tell me where can we find you?Speaker 2:
Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And if you wanna do part two, I know there's tons more to talk about on mushrooms and different applications. Um, you can find, you know, my work in the ology email@example.com , you can go to the science team and learn more about me there. Um, and then, you know, professionally, personally, I have a , a general practice here in Ontario. It's called the health creation lab, www dot the health creation lab. And I see patients in Ontario and yeah, all those, you know, those things I just mentioned, they have Facebook, Instagram, things like that, that you can connect with too. But those are the two places to find me , uh , in this space.Speaker 1:
Perfect. Thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate your time. Mason,Speaker 2:
Thanks so much. This was fun .Speaker 1:
Join me next week, where I cover off more exciting topic. I hope to continue to engage you and excite you and show you that living in your forties, fifties, and beyond can be exciting, balanced, and helpful bye for now.